Carmelite Nuns

[Orans]

[quote name='nunsense' date='10 November 2009 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1257915135' post='2000257']
I am under spiritual direction from a wonderful FSSP priest who is taking particularly good care of my soul. He has asked me not to discern anything to do with religious life at the moment as he wants me to take a step back from all of that and to establish a firm foundation in my spiritual life first. He says that he doesn't think I have had any good instruction or formation at all since I first came to the Catholic Church! I tend to agree with him too. That is probably why I have had such a hard time in discernment. I feel very blessed that God has put this priest in my life to guide me at this point in time. The other FSSP priest who helps him is now my regular Confessor, and between the two of them I feel very protected.

I have heard it said that "once a Carmelite, always a Carmelite" and I will always carry that in my heart. But I am not a religious and am not discerning religious life at the moment. That may change over time, only God knows. [/quote]


[quote name='HisChild' date='11 November 2009 - 05:42 AM' timestamp='1257936139' post='2000595']
It sounds like you are blessed with a wonderful spiritual formation. Do they give you lessons, ie: reading, etc? As it would happen, I just sat down with my pastor last night for the first time. I didn't realize what a prayer warrior that man is! Like you, my pastor told me to slow down and allow God to work. He thought I was rushing things. So we prayed together and I really think this is going to be a fabulous association/relationship between director and directee. He doesn't do much SD, but I said, 'well here's where I am and you tell me if you'd like to assist.' At the end, he asked me to make another appt so I'm very edified by that. I walked out of his office feeling better than I had in months. I think it has to do with having a disinterested party talk with me... the only thing he's interested in is my soul. You know? God is great, indeed.
[/quote]

I'm really glad to see this happening with both of you. This is what spiritual direction is about. I am a sp. dr. myself and I'm doing this with people. It is so incredible to see God at work over time with people when they are given the time and "space" they need. Then there is a transformation and clarification of purpose, values, and call that happens. Blessed be the Lord!

[TradMom]

+ Praised be Jesus Christ!

I need to jump in here. I believe there are many vocations out there, but they are not supported or encouraged fully (that means first and foremost - within the family!) and then, sadly, there are difficulties in finding the right place.

I believe (from personal experience alone) that the Holy Spirit alone guides; sometimes it is a whisper and other times not. As friends and companions, we need to confirm what we see in others! That can often be the first step.

Pax!

TradMom

[FSM Sister]

[code][/code]Perhaps that's another case of out of sight, out of mind? Because cloisters are not all that much of an active presence, and of course because they aren't really a contribution to society because all they do is pray all day [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img], one doesn't think of cloistered religious when praying for vocations. I'm lucky. My parish prays for vocations to religious life every weekend.[code][/code]



I had to crack up at that one! "All they do is pray all day"??? Um... they actually have jobs, too. They make communion breads, cheeses, raise miniature horses, sew vestments, embroider altar cloths, print greeting cards and stationery, write books, or any one of a million "fun" raisers. They spend about as much time tending to sustaining the monastery, which would be rather pointless were it not "offered up."

Using the Body of Christ analogy, they are the internal organs which give life to the body. I don't see my heart or lungs, but I couldn't function without them. And although you can live with one kidney, you'd better not try it with zero. To be perfectly cold about this, active orders started cropping up as slavery was ending. It basically "filled a need" in society. Vocations to women's orders started to decline when women's lib started to flourish. Women no longer had to choose between being dominated by a man or being dominated by a female superior. They could make decisions for themselves. (I'm not passing judgment on this, just stating facts. Domination may be a good thing. People do need direction!) Being single is more and more accepted. In my day, if you were single, people usually just figured you were gay. Sheesh! I suffered a lot of this in public high school. I wasn't dating, therefore I must be gay (BTW, I'm not. I just knew what my vocation was, so dating would have been a waste of time.)

The point of all this is that now we have both contemplative and active communities, and both are very necessary in today's world. They are not the same vocation, that's why there are two types of public vows - simple for the actives, and solemn for the contemplatives (with the occasional exception to the norm). I make a private retreat in a cloister every other year, and by the third day, I can't wait to get out of there. It's not for me. Likewise, I'm sure my contemplative friends would consider it a penance to be on the other side of the grille. God did not make a body with all internal organs, or with all external organs. The inside needs the outside just as much as the outside needs the inside.

In a way, that's the beauty of the many different spiritualities (once a Carmelite, always a Carmelite, etc.) On the mystical body, a hand is not a foot, and an ear is not a nose.

I think if we had more women "not making much of a contribution to society" we'd have a much better society. The nuns would be praying for an end to abortion, war, greed, poverty, injustice, political corruption, perversion, godlessness, substance abuse, etc.

[HisChild]

[quote name='FSM Sister' date='12 November 2009 - 01:39 AM' timestamp='1258015181' post='2001205']
[code][/code]Perhaps that's another case of out of sight, out of mind? Because cloisters are not all that much of an active presence, and of course because they aren't really a contribution to society because all they do is pray all day [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img], one doesn't think of cloistered religious when praying for vocations. I'm lucky. My parish prays for vocations to religious life every weekend.[code][/code]



I had to crack up at that one! "All they do is pray all day"??? Um... they actually have jobs, too. They make communion breads, cheeses, raise miniature horses, sew vestments, embroider altar cloths, print greeting cards and stationery, write books, or any one of a million "fun" raisers. They spend about as much time tending to sustaining the monastery, which would be rather pointless were it not "offered up."

[/quote]


I hope you don't think I was serious with my 'prays all day'. Because you went on to explain what nuns do, I thought perhaps you thought I was serious. I was with the PCPA (as a postulant). That's the remark I got more than once even from parishioners before I entered. I had to, like you, explain that I would have any of a number of assignments to participate in the upkeep of the monastery as well as be a part of the jobs that would contribute in our self sufficiency. In this case, packing communion breads and labeling the boxes for shipping or tending to the gift shop. At any rate, it certainly was frustrating to get that comment and have to almost defend myself as many thought I was going some place to hide away from the world so I wouldn't have to do anything but pray.

[HisChild]

I have a question that's particularly for Carmel. I know that some/most Carmels do not have A/C or heaters. How does one stay warm or cool in the respective seasons? Do the sisters get ill from the temperature, especially in places like NY, where they have pretty severe winters?

[Orans]

[quote name='HisChild' date='12 November 2009 - 08:44 PM' timestamp='1258076683' post='2001579']
I have a question that's particularly for Carmel. I know that some/most Carmels do not have A/C or heaters. How does one stay warm or cool in the respective seasons? Do the sisters get ill from the temperature, especially in places like NY, where they have pretty severe winters?
[/quote]

Although is not a Carmel, I have experience with another Order more penitential than Carmel -or even Carthusians-. The habit is basically wool and is worn the same all through the year, summer and winter alike -except for the addiction of a short sleeveless vest under the external tunic during winter. They are discalced -without stockings of any kind- wearing only sandals in summer as well as in winter. The temperatures of their places go basically from -8 or -10ºC [teens ºF] to 45 or 49ºC [110 or 120ºF]. There is no heat whatsoever, neither A/C.

There are a number of ways in which they protect themselves from the cold. First and foremost, in winter there is always a little straw or wooden carpet/stool for the feet -which otherwise freeze and as a result the whole body- everywhere, like working places, refectory, parlor, and of course in choir and your cell -only they have individual round straw carpets all year round in these two places, as they always sit on the floor -except for the Office of Readings (Matins) and solemn liturgies -Sunday Mass and Vespers (as well as solemnities). All the chairs they have -anywhere, that is at the refectory, parlor, and work places- are just stools without back support.

A second way of fighting the cold temperatures is hot food and a cup of some VERY hot drink. You learn to swallow a cup of tea, or milk, or camomille etc without burning yourself, so hot that when you have finished drinking, the cup itself is still so hot that you only can hold it with a napking. And you really warm up in seconds.

You walk and exercise to warm your body up or avoid getting too cold. But also You get used to it, or at least to enduring the cold. It is one of those things that the gost of how terrible it might be is worst than the actual enduring it.

This Sisters have a daily shower with hot water -or your convenient temperature- which is also a great help for warming yourself up.

As for the heat -like with everything else- ... you don't know what the body can take until you try it [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/shock.gif[/img] .
So basically you try not to think about it and to make peace with the sweat falling on the floor. A drink of cool water helps too.

[Saint Therese]

I think whether or not a superior is addressed as "Reverend" or not is up to the individual community.

[OCDSdad]

[quote name='HisChild' date='11 November 2009 - 06:42 AM' timestamp='1257936139' post='2000595']
I too have heard "Once a Carmelite, always a Carmelite". From the time I was enrolled in the scapular, I knew that my vocation whatever turn it would take, I would be Carmelite even if that meant Secular Carmelite.

I so enjoy reading discerner stories, I am so edified by this phorum. I know this is off topic but the phrase: "Once Carmelite, Always Carmelite" struck me tenderly. I came to know Carmel in the late '70's when I joined TOC. It was a "rocky" time and I was too imature to persevere so I left it. For 35 years I longed for Carmel and just brushed it off but here, about 2.5 years ago I leaped into OCDS and I feel so at "home". Sorry about the hijack...
Mr. Ray
OCDS

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='OCDSdad' date='16 November 2009 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1258409757' post='2003884']
[quote name='HisChild' date='11 November 2009 - 06:42 AM' timestamp='1257936139' post='2000595']
I too have heard "Once a Carmelite, always a Carmelite". From the time I was enrolled in the scapular, I knew that my vocation whatever turn it would take, I would be Carmelite even if that meant Secular Carmelite.

I so enjoy reading discerner stories, I am so edified by this phorum. I know this is off topic but the phrase: "Once Carmelite, Always Carmelite" struck me tenderly. I came to know Carmel in the late '70's when I joined TOC. It was a "rocky" time and I was too imature to persevere so I left it. For 35 years I longed for Carmel and just brushed it off but here, about 2.5 years ago I leaped into OCDS and I feel so at "home". Sorry about the hijack...
Mr. Ray
OCDS
[/quote]



I too have found this to be so true for me; "Once a Carmelite always a Carmelite." For me as much as I love and appreciate the beauty of other charisms and spiritualities, Carmel IS home for me, and I thank God every day for the gift of my vocation !

Tenderly

Indwelling Trinity

Edited November 17, 2009 by Indwelling Trinity

[HisChild]

[quote name='OCDSdad' date='16 November 2009 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1258409757' post='2003884']
[quote name='HisChild' date='11 November 2009 - 06:42 AM' timestamp='1257936139' post='2000595']
I too have heard "Once a Carmelite, always a Carmelite". From the time I was enrolled in the scapular, I knew that my vocation whatever turn it would take, I would be Carmelite even if that meant Secular Carmelite.

I so enjoy reading discerner stories, I am so edified by this phorum. I know this is off topic but the phrase: "Once Carmelite, Always Carmelite" struck me tenderly. I came to know Carmel in the late '70's when I joined TOC. It was a "rocky" time and I was too imature to persevere so I left it. For 35 years I longed for Carmel and just brushed it off but here, about 2.5 years ago I leaped into OCDS and I feel so at "home". Sorry about the hijack...
Mr. Ray
OCDS
[/quote]


Is this the Mr. Ray, father of Lori (can't remember her user name)?

[HisChild]

Oooooohhhhh, has anyone seen this site? http://www.carmeliteshoppe.com/

[OCDSdad]

[quote name='HisChild' date='16 November 2009 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1258424887' post='2004068']
ame='OCDSdad' date='16 November 2009 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1258409757' post='2003884']



Is this the Mr. Ray, father of Lori (can't remember her user name)?
[/quote]


Yes it's me. I tryed to post a note on your profile but I must of done it wrong. I'm sure Lori would love to hear from you.
Mr. Ray

[HisChild]

[quote name='OCDSdad' date='17 November 2009 - 12:48 PM' timestamp='1258487312' post='2004323']
Yes it's me. I tryed to post a note on your profile but I must of done it wrong. I'm sure Lori would love to hear from you.
Mr. Ray
[/quote]


I made it so I approve all comments. That way I'll see them come through my email and won't forget that people add comments!
I responded back.

It's so good to see you on here! YAY! You're a Carmelite now!

[Orans]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='16 November 2009 - 10:32 AM' timestamp='1258385567' post='2003651']
I think whether or not a superior is addressed as "Reverend" or not is up to the individual community.
[/quote]

I came accross this column, which I think offer some food for thought on the issue of "great reverence" with religious. They/we are people as ordinary as anyone else, and if God is in them, God is also in every one of the persons in a community, or in the street. No human person is neutral to adulation as no one is neutral to being despised, no mattter how subtle the issue.

It may be good for us to address the superior as "Reverend" but it may not be good for them.

Peace!

[center][font="Georgia"][size="6"][b]THE IDOLATRY OF CELEBRITY WORSHIP[/b][/size][/font][/center]


[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][size="3"]By Paul Proctor
November 18, 2009
NewsWithViews.com[/size][/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][b]Giving others the glory that is due God[/b][/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]One of the more popular tactics of modern-day marketing is the use or should I say misuse of celebrities. They're everywhere these days peddling this, endorsing that – posing as "experts" with a special knowledge or wisdom into whatever the public at large assumes they have simply because their face and/or voice is recognizable and trusted due to some past or present and often irrelevant career, affiliation, endeavor or event that gained them a degree of notoriety.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]It is human nature for people to trust the familiar more than the strange; and marketers know this all too well. Consequently, many of us will instinctively treat the advice a celebrity gives as the counsel of an astute, discerning and well-informed friend – especially if they've played a memorable role, hosted a top-rated show, held an influential office or position, written a best-selling book, made a lot of money, sang a hit song or broken some record in the field of sports that impressed or moved us in some way.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Under their exploited influence, our envy and infatuation often bypasses logic, reason and sound judgment, persuading us to listen and follow their lead even though they don't know us and we don't know them beyond the manufactured and well-guarded image we see and hear in the media.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]This is the mysterious power of celebrity – a seductive and intoxicating force that too many covet and too few fear – a form of inebriation and delusion, and at times, insanity that incites brazen and bazaar behavior from those who fawn at the feet of fame, making them say and do things they would not otherwise.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]The next time you happen to be anywhere near a celebrity, don't watch them – watch the people around them and you'll better understand what I'm talking about. Hopefully, what you see and hear will be offensive enough to keep you from being brought under the celebrity's spell.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Although the power of stardom is quite common, I find it amazingly hard to explain. Maybe it's a stress-related chemical released into the human body that renders fans shamelessly foolish and irrational – a combination of adrenaline and dopamine being dumped into one's bloodstream causing them act goofy and say dumb and embarrassing things. Or could it be a demonic spirit in or around certain celebrities that adversely affects those in their presence? I really don't know; but I do know that, more often than not, it is a disconcerting thing to see.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Sadly, this mysterious power is not limited to Hollywood and our so-called "secular society." Saints both inside and outside the sanctuary have become just as infatuated with stars as have sinners, utilizing their seductive sway in carnal ways allegedly for spiritual purposes – all the while carefully orchestrating a little mammon and glory for self via their advertized friendship or affiliation with the famous. [/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Unfortunately, today's Christian celebrities are not as prone to rend their clothes like Paul and Barnabas did in Acts 14 when people began treating them as deities. Today's worshiped believers claim to use their "God-given influence" as "leaders," "mentors," "role models" and "witnesses for Christ" to "reach the unchurched," "change the world" and what have you.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]I saw a little Christian celebrity worship in Pastor Greg Laurie's column last Saturday over at World Net Daily where he carefully described his recent invitation and visit to Billy Graham's house. [/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]He began by letting readers know right out of the gate: [i]"Billy wanted my wife, Cathe, and me to come visit him at his home…"[/i] He went on to assure us this wasn't his first visit to Graham's rural residence by not-so-subtly informing everyone of the "familiar drive up the winding road that leads to the home of the man whom I believe to be the greatest evangelist in human history," gushing on to say, "I've had the privilege of being alone with Billy on many occasions, but have always had a bit of trepidation. After all, he is Billy Graham!"[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Sounds more like Moses trying to explain his encounter with the burning bush on Mount Sinai than a couple of preachers having lunch.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Maybe Mr. Laurie should re-read Matthew 18 and Jesus' response to His disciples' preoccupation with "who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Enamored of Graham's celebrity status and stadium successes, how quickly today's pop preachers forget those who've been mercilessly martyred in isolation and obscurity for their evangelical efforts.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Is Graham really greater than these?[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]Laurie continued his praise-a-thon by telling us "Billy" doesn't act like a "famous person" and that he requested and listened intently to Laurie's overview of a message he would deliver later that evening at The Cove, making sure we all knew that Billy told him it was "wonderful" and "Thank you for sharing that with us!"[/font][/left]
[center][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][/font][/center]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]He concluded his star struck story by declaring Graham to be the most godly man he has ever met, adding, "what an honor" it was "to know him" and then closed his exaltation with: "Thank God for Billy Graham."[/font][/left]

[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"]I suspect the godliest people under Heaven are folks most of us have never met or even heard of that quietly serve the Lord far and away from TV cameras, heads of state and adoring crowds – Christians that refuse, with [i]real[/i] humility, to be worshipped or revered either in their homes or in public – truly suffering and sacrificing themselves daily for the gospel – living without the honor and acclaim that is so sought-after in and around many pulpits today – rendering and redirecting in their persecution and tears all glory to God and very well-known to the only One that really matters.[/font][/left]
[left][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][i]"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."[/i] – Romans 3:23[/font][/left]

[Saint Therese]

We have great reverence for religious because they are consecrated to God. I think to suggest that its iproper to call a superior "reverend" is silly.
I'm also wondering why you posted an article that is obviously from a non-Catholic view point.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Saint Therese