Veiling And Pants

[CatherineM]

I wore blue nike waffle trainers with my wedding gown.

[jiyoung]

I totally want to wear sneakers under my wedding dress if I get married. Actually, no...I'd wear flip-flops. Be true to myself, lol.

You know what's funny about the pants vs. skirts debate? In modern culture, skirts can be seen as more enticing because (a) they're less common and (b) they're considered "easy access." I won't explain what that means for those who don't know. Modesty is a cultural thing; there aren't guidelines like that. As someone else mentioned above, men and women wore different kinds of robes (neither wearing pants) when the law in Deuteronomy was given.

I veil and wear pants all the time. It's plain impractical to change into a skirt for daily mass every day if I'm just swinging by during a lunch break or something. I do make a point of wearing a skirt for Sunday Masses typically, but that's because it's part of an effort to dress up. Sometimes--and especially when it's cold--I'll wear a nice pair of slacks instead. If I go to hell for something, I'm pretty sure it's not going to be for a pair of jeans.

[Marie-Therese]

There have actually been many times where I was in a veil and scrubs. Looked pretty dorky, but what can you do? LOL If I wanted to go to midday Mass, I had to go as is.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='09 November 2009 - 03:07 PM' timestamp='1257800846' post='1999016']
+J.M.J.+
should a woman who veils at Mass not wear pants to Mass (or at all)? honest question that was posed to me "why veil the head yet expose the crotch?"
[/quote]

After reading a page or so I stopped so pardon me if this has been refuted already. But... I don't look at it as a modesty issue. I think either pants or dresses/skirts can be made immodest by the wearer if they want to (i.e. I would consider somewhat loose - relatively - pants far more modest and appropriate than a short/tight skirt/dress). However, and this is just personal opinion as I don't know what the Church says on it, I do believe that certain apparel is more appropriate for church from a formality perspective rather than a morality one. While loose pants imho are not immodest, I think Church isn't necessarily the place for them. Basically the same way that I feel that a long-sleeve t-shirt or polo is moral and fine for guys to wear in most occasions, I think they aren't so appropriate for Mass, not so much as a button down (preferably with tie if possible). Like if a lady were to go to a formal ball, I think they would probably wear a gown or dress of some kind. While something else can be nice too, it isn't necessarily appropriate for the occasion.

Especially when you're comparing the veil in the same light as wearing pants. The veil isn't used for modesty so much as it is used because it is appropriate for Church. So it's only fair to make an argument for or against pants in light of formality and appropriateness to the occasion, rather than modesty. Are pants inappropriate for Mass? Maybe not, just my opinion and it doesn't bother me if others disagree as I don't think its set in stone.

Edited November 10, 2009 by goldenchild17

[zunshynn]

I would agree that it's important to make an effort to dress nicely for mass, and visits to church when one has the time... But like Marie Therese said... you know, sometimes she goes to church in scrubs. Sometimes I go to adoration after school, when I'm carrying a bunch of books, and probably look like somewhat of a wreck. Would Jesus prefer that someone not go to visit Him in the Blessed Sacrament because they aren't dressed very nicely, but in whatever they wore for work/school/etc.? Sometimes I think it can be an even greater expression of love to go see Him in that circumstance, then going to Mass when one is all "ready" and dressed in their best clothes. Obviously, that's a matter of the heart, and some people may not, legitimately see it that way. That's just my take on it.

I recall one time when I was working with an aspirant at the monastery, and I was going to go through the chapel with her to get somewhere else, and she didn't want to because she didn't have her veil with her, so we went around another way. Personally, I thought Jesus would be happier to see her without her veil than to have her not go through the chapel when she had a chance to just because she didn't have a veil. But of course, it would totally be a matter of individual conscience, that's just my thought.

Edited November 10, 2009 by zunshynn

[Archaeology cat]

Well, I hope it isn't wrong, since I often wear trousers to daily Mass, and I always veil. This is in part because of the fact that I have no maternity skirts, though I do have quite a few with an elasticated waistband. I've honestly been thinking about getting more "everyday" skirts to wear and slowly changing my warddrobe, but we'll see how that goes.

[quote name='Varg' date='09 November 2009 - 09:13 PM' timestamp='1257801225' post='1999021']
If someone wants to go commando then I say let 'em
[/quote]
Yeah, I totally laughed at that. Ah, the difference in terms across the ocean.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='09 November 2009 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1257807853' post='1999136']
SMM is right; only true manliness can pull off a kilt.
[/quote]

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='10 November 2009 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1257840959' post='1999408']
I would agree that it's important to make an effort to dress nicely for mass, and visits to church when one has the time... But like Marie Therese said... you know, sometimes she goes to church in scrubs. Sometimes I go to adoration after school, when I'm carrying a bunch of books, and probably look like somewhat of a wreck. Would Jesus prefer that someone not go to visit Him in the Blessed Sacrament because they aren't dressed very nicely, but in whatever they wore for work/school/etc.? Sometimes I think it can be an even greater expression of love to go see Him in that circumstance, then going to Mass when one is all "ready" and dressed in their best clothes. Obviously, that's a matter of the heart, and some people may not, legitimately see it that way. That's just my take on it.

I recall one time when I was working with an aspirant at the monastery, and I was going to go through the chapel with her to get somewhere else, and she didn't want to because she didn't have her veil with her, so we went around another way. Personally, I thought Jesus would be happier to see her without her veil than to have her not go through the chapel when she had a chance to just because she didn't have a veil. But of course, it would totally be a matter of individual conscience, that's just my thought.
[/quote]

I wouldn't refer my post to every Mass, but to those where you have a chance to decide what you wear to Mass. I know that there are sometimes circumstances that dictate a different clothing option. Like the homeless for example, they obviously don't have the means to do it up in the clothing department, but its the best they have. I think God only expects that you do the best with what you've got. When you have a choice between pants and something such as a skirt/dress for Mass, it's my opinion that while either can be modest or immodest, the latter is more appropriate for Mass. When you don't have a choice, then don't stress it.

Edited November 10, 2009 by goldenchild17

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='10 November 2009 - 08:24 AM' timestamp='1257841469' post='1999412']
I wouldn't refer my post to every Mass, but to those where you have a chance to decide what you wear to Mass. I know that there are sometimes circumstances that dictate a different clothing option. I think God only expects that you do the best with what you've got at the time. When you have a choice between pants and something such as a skirt/dress for Mass, it's my opinion that while either can be modest or immodest, the latter is more appropriate for Mass.
[/quote]
That's something I've been thinking more about lately, and one reason I want to get more skirts. And tights to go under them b/c it gets cold here.

[TradMom]

+Praised Be Jesus Christ!

Personally, I believe that Jesus is delighted and overjoyed whenEVER we come to see Him and is less concerned about our exterior wear than He is about what's going on inside. That being said...I would think this question should take into consideration why a woman is veiling to begin with. (And what her circumstances are! The doctor or nurse - or for that matter...the gardener, the plumber, the mechanic, the harried mother who just plain ran out of time!) who attends mid-day Mass cannot be expected to change; and should not be criticized or refused entrance - though, sadly, some people feel otherwise!)

If it is a question of modesty ONLY then I believe pants can certainly be modest and very appropriate. (Some pants are very flattering, modest and full; they do not reveal much and could easily be mistaken for a long dress - as one example.)

If it is because she wants to dress in a special and sacred manner; recognizing that she is about to encounter the Lord in a profound and intimate way and would like to prepare herself - inside and out - to be wholly present without distractions, and she appreciates the traditions of the Church to bolster that preparation, then wearing pants does not really fit.

There is someone on this phorum who has discussed wearing special clothing to Mass and for prayer. She received a lot of criticism for her position, but I understand it. Veiling can have many uses for an individual and this is so personal, I urge others not to judge. For better understanding and deeper discernment on this subject, however, I hope I have given those wondering something else to take into consideration.

Pax!

TradMom