Interesting Arguement

[Hassan]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='11 November 2009 - 02:12 AM' timestamp='1257923552' post='2000491']
You're not going to answer my question.
[/quote]


They have no answer. If they had any substantive defense of their position on homosexuality that wasn't dependent on "sacred revelation" they would have produced it.

Sorry for being delayed in getting back to you on facebook btw.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='11 November 2009 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1257919808' post='2000420']
Can does not necessarily or logically imply must as you assert. Please define "sex" for us.
[/quote]

Penetration with the purpose of ejaculation.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Hassan' date='11 November 2009 - 02:11 AM' timestamp='1257923499' post='2000490']
Because you need a theology degree to spout off unsubstantiated, vacuous conjecture about "energies" and the "ultimate end" of the sexual faculties.
[/quote]

Well you don't need a degree to spout off unsubstantiated vacuous conjecture about anything. That was precisely my point. If you have a problem with postulations concerning the 'ultimate ends' of sensible things then you're wasting your time in the wrong forum. That's precisely what Debate Tables are for.

[Hassan]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='10 November 2009 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1257914663' post='2000243']
I asked how you get from "sex can be procreative" to "sex must be procreative".
[/quote]


Those nasty quantifier shifts have been the bane of Christian natural theology since at least Aquinas.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='11 November 2009 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1257923705' post='2000495']
Penetration with the purpose of ejaculation.
[/quote]

Thank you. Now define 'ejaculation'

[Hassan]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='11 November 2009 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1257923768' post='2000498']
Well you don't need a degree to spout off unsubstantiated vacuous conjecture about anything. That was precisely my point. If you have a problem with postulations concerning the 'ultimate ends' of sensible things then you're wasting your time in the wrong forum. That's precisely what Debate Tables are for.
[/quote]

This is the debate table.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='11 November 2009 - 02:17 AM' timestamp='1257923826' post='2000500']
Thank you. Now define 'ejaculation'
[/quote]

HAHAHA are you joking? Skip passed all the preliminaries, I know where you're going.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='11 November 2009 - 02:19 AM' timestamp='1257923981' post='2000504']
HAHAHA are you joking? Skip passed all the preliminaries, I know where you're going.
[/quote]

I am not joking. Why don't you define where I am going?

[OraProMe]

Ejaculation is the discharge of semen during orgasm.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='11 November 2009 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1257923499' post='2000490']
Because you need a theology degree to spout off unsubstantiated, vacuous conjecture about "energies" and the "ultimate end" of the sexual faculties.
[/quote]
You may wish to call a 2,000 year old theological tradition vacuous, but that religious tradition certainly has greater intellectual depth than the thoughts that have floated around in your mind for perhaps a couple of years, and that you spout out as wisdom here at Phatmass.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Winchester' date='10 November 2009 - 09:56 AM' timestamp='1257864975' post='1999465']
Are you arguing that one cannot change habits? Are you arguing that sexual attraction is not based in part on conditioning?
[/quote]

It is an irony to me that it took our country 200 years to finally admit that people are not determined or reduced by their race or genetics and that we can rise above color, socioeconomic status, family problems and religious differences. But in the modern viewpoint human sexuality is incontrovertibly static. You were hardwired straight or gay that way in your genetics and to hell with anyone who suggests you have the power to change. You are limited and determined by your sexual orientation apparently. Just not by anything else.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Hassan' date='11 November 2009 - 03:12 AM' timestamp='1257923559' post='2000492']
Male urination must be a grave sin then.
[/quote]

A good clarification.

~Sternhauser

[Veridicus]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='11 November 2009 - 02:29 AM' timestamp='1257924595' post='2000512']
Ejaculation is the discharge of semen during orgasm.
[/quote]

And was it semen?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='10 November 2009 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1257916666' post='2000308']
" It is wrong because it is a contradiction of the purpose of the sexual faculty, which is sexual intercourse, which, of its nature,[b] must be open to the possibility of life.[/b] "

Why? I'm posing a distinction to you, Sternhauser. I think you're saying that because "the purpose of the sexual faculty, which is sexual intercourse" can lead to children then it must always lead to children. But you haven't provided any reasoning to get from A to B.

Can is not must.
[/quote]
Your reading comprehension is not what it should be, because the pivotal element in Sternhauser's post was not merely the word "must" but the entire phrase concerning openness to the possibility of transmitting life.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 November 2009 - 02:37 AM' timestamp='1257925034' post='2000525']
Your reading comprehension is not what it should be, because the pivotal element in Sternhauser's post was not merely the word "must" but the entire phrase concerning openness to the possibility of transmitting life.
[/quote]

There are no "musts" in a materialist's world; so this will always be a word which causes hangups.