Interesting Arguement

[Winchester]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='10 November 2009 - 10:18 AM' timestamp='1257866293' post='1999476']
Frogs with two heads. Do they occur in nature? Yes. Are frogs designed to operate with two heads, and is the genetic sustenance of a line of two headed frogs appropriate to the natural order? No. Two headed frogs are physically limited. [/quote]
Two-headed frogs are awesome.

[Sternhauser]

The natural world? Hardly a guide for the actions of men. If nature does it, and it's moral, then it's apparently all right for us to bludgeon each other and eat each other's raw flesh. And it's all right for siblings to throw each other off of buildings, as hatchlings do, when they deliberately kick their nestmates out of the nest to their deaths.

And as the others noted, Varg, you say that "You can't control your attractions." It is said that alcoholics have a genetic predisposition to be addicted to alcohol. Morally, should they indulge their weaknesses, destroy their livers and their lives? I'd like for you to answer the question a while back about pedophiles. Who is to say their attraction to pre-pubescent children isn't "natural?" If it is natural, who can say that they shouldn't engage in sexual activity with children? How about men who are attracted to adolescent boys? Are they "pedophiles" or are they "homosexuals?"

~Sternhauser

Edited November 10, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Varg]

The difference between homosexuals and paedophiles is that generally homosexuals have consented sex with people who are old enough to understand.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Varg' date='10 November 2009 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1257872481' post='1999519']
The difference between homosexuals and paedophiles is that generally homosexuals have consented sex with people who are old enough to understand.
[/quote]

Now answer the other points.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 10, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Varg]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 November 2009 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1257866889' post='1999482']
The natural world? Hardly a guide for the actions of men. If nature does it, and it's moral, then it's apparently all right for us to bludgeon each other and eat each other's raw flesh. And it's all right for siblings to throw each other off of buildings, as hatchlings do, when they deliberately kick their nestmates out of the nest to their deaths.
[/quote]Because we ARE nature, the "because nature does it" thing fails. Different species do different things...There's no reason why we would copy what animals do. Do cats swin because they saw a shark doing it? Do dogs try and fly because they saw a hawk do it? Not that I know of.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Varg

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Varg' date='10 November 2009 - 01:10 PM' timestamp='1257873047' post='1999530']
Because we ARE nature, the "because nature does it" thing fails. Different species do different things...There's no reason why we would copy what animals do. Do cats swin because they saw a shark doing it? Do dogs try and fly because they saw a hawk do it? Not that I know of.
[/quote]

Yet you just implied that because homosexuality is found among animals, it is all right for humans. Why does that not apply to other behaviors?

~Sternhauser

Edited November 10, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote name='Varg' date='10 November 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1257872481' post='1999519']
The difference between homosexuals and paedophiles is that generally homosexuals have consented sex with people who are old enough to understand.
[/quote]

In practice they are radically different...in nature they are not. A homosexual man can't help being attracted to a man...a pedophile can't help being attracted to a child. Now what?


[quote name='Varg' date='10 November 2009 - 12:10 PM' timestamp='1257873047' post='1999530']
Because we ARE nature, the "because nature does it" thing fails. Different species do different things...There's no reason why we would copy what animals do. Do cats swin because they saw a shark doing it? Do dogs try and fly because they saw a hawk do it? Not that I know of.
[/quote]

Why no...animals act ACCORDING TO THEIR NATURE. Acting otherwise is unnatural and detrimental to the species. This is also irrelevant anyway. A dog does not have the rational capacity to adopt a practice contrary to its nature willfully. He has instinct and acts on it.

A human can rationally assess his actions and determine whether they are rational or irrational good or bad.

What is the natural and distinctive end of human sexuality?

[Varg]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 November 2009 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1257873811' post='1999542']
Yet you just implied that because homosexuality is found among animals, it is all right for humans.


[/quote]Care to point out where I said that?

[Varg]

[quote name='Servus_Mariae' date='10 November 2009 - 12:28 PM' timestamp='1257874086' post='1999545']
unnatural
[/quote]Did you even watch the video?

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote name='Varg' date='10 November 2009 - 01:20 PM' timestamp='1257877238' post='1999607']
Did you even watch the video?
[/quote]

Yeah sorry...I got distracted with other posts and ignored the video's particular context.

In response to it specifically:

I can think of two particular reasons for why what is natural is worth being weighed.

The many; Law if not determined by nature and things natural, is so by way of rhetoric and social acceptance. Holocaust, racism, sexism, shoot bigoted homophobia are all acceptable principles. Why? Because the majority said so and feels okay with that? Our reason must have a method for determining truth, this is gaged by nature. Without it what are we to base claim?

The one; How are we to determine our own personal morality? Why shouldn't the forty year old pedophile have relations with a nine year old boy? What if the boy consents to it? Oh...well he is too young to make such a decision as consensual sex. Says what? ...Nature?

Lastly, this guy is perfect spokesman for modern atheistic pseudo-intellectualism. He knows how to ridicule and mock alternative opinions but not pursue truth himself. His truth is determined by negation. "I don't like this reasoning...so its wrong and the alternative is categorically correct". Unfortunately, his notion of "Christianity" is completely errant. Maybe not for fundamentalists...but for Catholicism he is way off the mark. God is not irrational or beyond logic. He is Truth itself and truth is the object of both reason and logic, all which He created points back to Him. Thus, logic and reason (natural faculty for determining truth informed by the natural world) are trustworthy.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='10 November 2009 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1257836409' post='1999403']
I'd recommend against that science experiment, because it indeed is possible. I think the Kinsey studies of sexuality really show that there is a wide spectrum along which people can move, and it is indeed possible to move along the spectrum even possibly from one extreme of the spectrum to the other.

Developing an attraction for the sex that one is not normally attracted to is the easier aspect of that psychologically, what is much more difficult is loosing the sexual attraction you had previously. ie, for a heterosexual to develop homosexual attractions is easier than for a heterosexual to lose his heterosexual attraction; and likewise the other way around: a homosexual can certainly develop heterosexual attractions, the more difficult thing is for the homosexual to no longer have homosexual attractions. but both things are possible.
[/quote]
I am lead to understand that many homosexual men marry to try to live a [i]normal[/i] life. This usually ends in disaster, separation/divorce. While it probably is not impossible to change, it is extremely difficult and for some it may be [u]near[/u] impossible and like the alcoholic they would need to be constantly vigilant to avoid falling off the wagon. And technically they would still be homosexual because even though they may manage to abstain they would not be able to prevent the occasional response to the presence of an attractive man.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Varg' date='10 November 2009 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1257877085' post='1999605']
Care to point out where I said that?
[/quote]

On second check, you didn't. My apologies.

~Sternhauser

[OraProMe]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='09 November 2009 - 04:28 PM' timestamp='1257802125' post='1999031']
interesting. like the other day i realized that homosexual guys become effeminate, and homosexual women become masculine. 'dikes' etc. it's like there's a mixed up role playing going on. the body is probably becoming attached to mixed hormones etc.
[/quote]

LOL

I made a comment about a cute guy at school a few weeks ago to this girl in my class and she couldn't believe I was gay. One of my friends is a lesbian and she's one of the prettiest, feminine girls I know. You only think that because you assume that anyone who doesn't listen to Madonna or wear fluro is heterosexual.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 November 2009 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1257803137' post='1999049']
Agreed. Even people who chose a life in the wild construct some kind of shelter, for safety and protection. Clothing, too, is essential to keep the body warm.
[/quote]

The ears are not designed to have holes in them (earings). Eyes are designed to see (so you better stop playing Marco Polo). The vagina is designed to allow period blood to flow out, so you better stop using tampons. The lungs are designed to breath, so you better stop smoking.

etcetera.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='10 November 2009 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1257900884' post='1999975']
LOL

I made a comment about a cute guy at school a few weeks ago to this girl in my class and she couldn't believe I was gay. One of my friends is a lesbian and she's one of the prettiest, feminine girls I know. You only think that because you assume that anyone who doesn't listen to Madonna or wear fluro is heterosexual.
[/quote]

and all the gay guys i know have been completely masculine, nothing setting them apart except their preference from guys. never knew with a couple good friends until they told me. in fact all the gay guys i know couldnt stand the really stereotypical effeminate lisping gay guys.