OraProMe Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 November 2009 - 03:01 AM' timestamp='1257926460' post='2000555'] Why should I embrace your irrational position, which holds that there is no purpose in things; instead of holding to the position advocated by the Church of God? [/quote] I'm not concerned if you embrace my position or not. You can believe whatever you want and I have no desire or responsibility to convince you otherwise. You're much older and smarter than I am, I think you're wrong you think I'm wrong, that's it. Edited November 11, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='11 November 2009 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1257928466' post='2000573'] I'm not concerned if you embrace my position or not. You can believe whatever you want and I have no desire or responsibility to convince you otherwise. I'm not a fan of hyperbole, either. [/quote] Then you should avoid using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' date='11 November 2009 - 03:31 AM' timestamp='1257928312' post='2000572'] Heterosexuals breed homosexuals. [/quote] Not necessarily. I'm sure there are many people who suffer from SSA who marry a person of the opposite sex and have children. There are probably even cases where the children end up with the same disorder that their parent suffered from. Edited November 11, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 by the sheer law of averages im sure the situation Rexi described has happened, but i doubt it is anything near the most common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 November 2009 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1257925907' post='2000545'] No, it is because Christ says so[/QUOTE] We don't have any first person declarations from Jesus. [QUOTE]for He speaks through the Church.[/QUOTE] mmmmhhhmmmmmm [QUOTE]I do not buy into the idea that autonomous reason can discover the truth.[/QUOTE] Did you use reason to come to that decision? [QUOTE]In fact, there is no such thing as "autonomous" reason, because the rational faculty in man is a participation in Christ's being. That is after all why He is called Logos in scripture. [/quote] Sure, I believe that. Mostly because of the compelling intellectual case accompanying this quixotic claim that you presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='11 November 2009 - 04:48 AM' timestamp='1257932930' post='2000587'] We don't have any first person declarations from Jesus. [/quote] Christ is directly quoted in the gospels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 November 2009 - 03:06 AM' timestamp='1257926812' post='2000558'] Please explain, using the theory of natural selection, how the chemical mechanism of blood clotting came about. [/quote] http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/DI/clot/Clotting.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 November 2009 - 03:01 AM' timestamp='1257926460' post='2000555'] Why should I embrace your irrational position, which holds that there is no purpose in things; instead of holding to the position advocated by the Church of God? [/quote] You made the claim over a year ago that it is inherently irrational to reject teleology. You have yet to provide any intellectual support for that claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='11 November 2009 - 04:50 AM' timestamp='1257933056' post='2000588'] Christ is directly quoted in the gospels. [/quote] Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='11 November 2009 - 05:00 AM' timestamp='1257933634' post='2000592'] Of course. [/quote] Many of the declarations of Jesus in the gospels are have first person verbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='11 November 2009 - 04:48 AM' timestamp='1257932930' post='2000587'] Did you use reason to come to that decision? [/quote] Strawman. I think he was saying that reason alone can't bring us to a full knowledge of truth. Obviously there are some things we can know without the direct grace of God (of course, ultimately, our reason is His gift, so...). Even if he was saying what you took him to be saying, it wouldn't include him (I'm assuming for the sake of argument that he is in the state of grace and I find that a reasonable assumption, though I don't want to presume), since his reason would be aided by grace, so your response is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servus_Mariae Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If the natural law is not the foundation for determining morality what is (for an atheist)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Servus_Mariae' date='11 November 2009 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1257962641' post='2000719'] If the natural law is not the foundation for determining morality what is (for an atheist)? [/quote] Some atheists don't believe in morality, but I would guess that most of them are teleological moralists (ends justify the means) or consequentialists (do something according to what will happen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I reject Christian "morals" and view various forms of Paganism as an ideology. I also like to weave Buddhist views into my life. Edited November 11, 2009 by Varg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='11 November 2009 - 02:06 PM' timestamp='1257966391' post='2000759'] I reject Christian "morals" and view various forms of Paganism as an ideology. I also like to weave Buddhist views into my life. [/quote] What I don't understand is how someone can reject acting lovingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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