America And Guns

[JimR-OCDS]

I read a book about a year ago, called, "Nonviolence: 25 Lessons from the History of a Dangerous Idea" by Mark Kurlansky.

In the book, Kurlansky looks at the history of the world, and all the wars that have been fought, and how few times nations or groups, chose peaceful methods rather than violence, to achieve their goal.
From the evidence presented, when peaceful methods have been used, the results have been far better than when violence is used.

Anyway, he does quote Gandhi on non-violence and I think its important to note here.

Gandhi said that non-violence requires spiritual maturity, for a person to use wisdom to
curtail and aggressor. People who do not have this level of spiritual maturity, must use violence,
to defend themselves and their families.

The Spiritual Assistant that by OCDS group had, God rest his soul, addressed the use of violence when some one asked if it would be OK to use violence to defend oneself. Our spiritual assistant,
stated pretty much the something that is in line with Gandhi. Only those who have reached a higher level of love, will be able to avoid using violence.

Jesus is the prime example. He did not use violence to defend himself from being taken by the Romans, even though he had at his disposal, a legion of angels.

Of course, we are morally obligated to defend others, especially our families. How you defend them, makes the difference.

In our society, too many people have an disordered level of paranoia. Over the years there have been several cases of shootings, where a home owner felt he was defending his home. Turns out, the people that were shot, were not criminals, but innocent people who had approached the home
for purely innocent reasons, but were shot by a paranoid home owner who misread their intentions.

It speaks to how our society as a whole, is spiritually immature.

Jim

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='09 November 2009 - 10:25 AM' timestamp='1257776750' post='1998748']
In our society, too many people have an disordered level of paranoia. Over the years there have been several cases of shootings, where a home owner felt he was defending his home. Turns out, the people that were shot, were not criminals, but innocent people who had approached the home
for purely innocent reasons, but were shot by a paranoid home owner who misread their intentions.
It speaks to how our society as a whole, is spiritually immature.
Jim
[/quote]

Many people Jim, live in areas where "paranoia" is quite justified. I no longer walk my dog alone because the last time I did, young kids pulled a gun on me. Most of my neighbors have security cameras in their yards, and some of them now have permits to carry and do so. Do you know how ridiculous it is to have to go with the neighbors carrying a gun to walk your dog down the street? Do you know how it feels to hear gunfire every week and know someone is dying within earshot? To walk past a house and see the steps covered in blood? Paranoia is defined by the environment, so many of us are not paranoid, we just want to protect and keep our own.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 November 2009 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1257777933' post='1998752']
Many people Jim, live in areas where "paranoia" is quite justified. I no longer walk my dog alone because the last time I did, young kids pulled a gun on me. Most of my neighbors have security cameras in their yards, and some of them now have permits to carry and do so. Do you know how ridiculous it is to have to go with the neighbors carrying a gun to walk your dog down the street? Do you know how it feels to hear gunfire every week and know someone is dying within earshot? To walk past a house and see the steps covered in blood? Paranoia is defined by the environment, so many of us are not paranoid, we just want to protect and keep our own.
[/quote]


Yeah I know about it. Its why I moved out of the city and out into the country. Ironically, when I was in the city, no one ever tried to break into my home.

Out in the country however, one evening my wife met a guy coming through the back door into our kitchen. He looked at her and she screamed. Back then I was a hunter, so I ran up stares, grabbed my shotgun and went outside with my dog to try and find the guy. Wrong move, should've stayed in the house.

Anyway, it turned out that the guy was a neighbor who had moved into the house down the street, just a couple months before. When my wife told the cop she thought it was him, but had only seen him a few times and couldn't identify him well enough to say positively, it registered with me, what happen. Exactly one week before on the same week night, I pulled this neighbors car out of a ditch. He had been drinking and drove himself off the road. Well, it turned out, the night he came to our back do, three summer homes were broken into. The person, merely kicked in the door, walked in and then walked out. My guess, as well as the cops, is that he was drunk and got lost. It may be his wife locked him out of the house before, and so, the houses that he broke into, were all similar to his. When he finally realized he was too lost to find his way home, he came to my house. When he saw my wife, he got scared, but also must've realized where he was. He ran home.

Anyway, I thought about it, and it scares me to think, what if I had met this guy with my gun? Would I have panicked and shot him, for merely be a lost drunk?

Sadly, about a year later he took his own life, with a gun.


Jim

[Sternhauser]

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history willlook upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." Mohandas Gandhi, from his autobiography.

Self-defense requires efficacy.

Besides not being there when they come to visit, how does one defend one's family from street thugs intent upon raping one's family? Talk about it? They didn't come to talk. There's no explaining. There's no appeal to their humanity. They break in your door, and they're doing it. At that time, there are two ways to deal with it: pray for an instant miraculous conversion, or violence.

~Sternhauser

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='09 November 2009 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1257778450' post='1998756']
Yeah I know about it. Its why I moved out of the city and out into the country. Ironically, when I was in the city, no one ever tried to break into my home.

Out in the country however, one evening my wife met a guy coming through the back door into our kitchen. He looked at her and she screamed. Back then I was a hunter, so I ran up stares, grabbed my shotgun and went outside with my dog to try and find the guy. Wrong move, should've stayed in the house.

Anyway, it turned out that the guy was a neighbor who had moved into the house down the street, just a couple months before. When my wife told the cop she thought it was him, but had only seen him a few times and couldn't identify him well enough to say positively, it registered with me, what happen. Exactly one week before on the same week night, I pulled this neighbors car out of a ditch. He had been drinking and drove himself off the road. Well, it turned out, the night he came to our back do, three summer homes were broken into. The person, merely kicked in the door, walked in and then walked out. My guess, as well as the cops, is that he was drunk and got lost. It may be his wife locked him out of the house before, and so, the houses that he broke into, were all similar to his. When he finally realized he was too lost to find his way home, he came to my house. When he saw my wife, he got scared, but also must've realized where he was. He ran home.

Anyway, I thought about it, and it scares me to think, what if I had met this guy with my gun? Would I have panicked and shot him, for merely be a lost drunk?

Sadly, about a year later he took his own life, with a gun.


Jim
[/quote]
What if you had panicked and hit him with a baseball bat? What if you had panicked and hit him with a fire iron? or anything?

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 November 2009 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1257778762' post='1998758']
What if you had panicked and hit him with a baseball bat? What if you had panicked and hit him with a fire iron? or anything?
[/quote]


Well, he would've been in close enough distance that I would've recognised who he was.

Also, I've come to realize, that a baseball bat is actually a faster weapon to grab, when surprised as I was. I certainly wouldn't have gone outside after him.

The mistake I made was going outside after him. Had I shot him outside of my house, I'd be posting this from a prison library computer.


Jim

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 November 2009 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1257739028' post='1998626']
For what it's worth, significant gun control really doesn't decrease the amount of gun crimes. Canada proves this. Private citizens only rarely own guns, even more rarely non-hunting guns, and the restrictions on transport and storage are enormous.

Of course, the criminals don't care about that, and why would they? The gun crime comes from the career criminals and the gang bangers. Think they're going to listen to gun laws?



I kinda like what Ann Coulter said; carrying a concealed weapon should be mandatory. What petty criminal in their right mind is going to mug someone when that person legally has to be armed?
[/quote]
The thug wannabes in my neighborhood can't afford guns so they stab each other. Still end up dead.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='09 November 2009 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1257781833' post='1998771']
The thug wannabes in my neighborhood can't afford guns so they stab each other. Still end up dead.
[/quote]
That's true. Depends on the area.
Never used to be gun crime in Calgary, and it's still all knives in Saskatoon. Just depends on who comes in and how much money they have.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='08 November 2009 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1257725405' post='1998487']
Why on earth was it put in the constitution? Why is it still in the constitution? I'm sure times must have changed...
[/quote]

Because our country was founded on the principle that the government should be subservient to the people. Our right to bear arms ensures that we will always be able to enforce our ideal of government serving teh people instead of the other way around. In other words, the idea is that the government exists at the will of the people.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Saint Therese

[Brother Adam]

The right to carry arms is not based on what if scenarios.

[Saint Therese]

History shows that pacification of the people often preceeds totalitarian government.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='08 November 2009 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1257725405' post='1998487']
Why on earth was it put in the constitution? Why is it still in the constitution? I'm sure times must have changed...
[/quote]

The answer to this has to do more with a fundamental understanding of rights than particulars of constitutions. The question is, whether governments have the authority to take away a citizen's right to defend himself.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='09 November 2009 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1257784706' post='1998794']
History shows that pacification of the people often preceeds totalitarian government.
[/quote]

Very, very true.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='09 November 2009 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1257788307' post='1998832']
Very, very true.
[/quote]


Can you give an example?


Jim

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 November 2009 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1257739028' post='1998626']
For what it's worth, significant gun control really doesn't decrease the amount of gun crimes. Canada proves this. Private citizens only rarely own guns, even more rarely non-hunting guns, and the restrictions on transport and storage are enormous.

Of course, the criminals don't care about that, and why would they? The gun crime comes from the career criminals and the gang bangers. Think they're going to listen to gun laws?



I kinda like what Ann Coulter said; carrying a concealed weapon should be mandatory. What petty criminal in their right mind is going to mug someone when that person legally has to be armed?
[/quote]

Well, about 90% of the guns coming into canada are from the USA. so...