America And Guns

[OraProMe]

I was wondering what the whole deal with guns in America is? It seems to be a much bigger issue in America than other Western countries. I really don't know a lot about the issue so was wondering if someone could explain what the deal with Americans and guns is. A satirical news program in Australia once said that in some states of America the republicans were protesting against a decision to not allow mentally disabled people to carry guns. What the......

Do you guys consider it a right for a man to own a gun? My international politics teacher spoke about this at length a while ago but he's very left-wing so I was wondering what some of you guys think about the issue. Why the big deal about fire arms?

Edited November 9, 2009 by OraProMe

[Nihil Obstat]

I think it's a bigger issue in the US than elsewhere mostly because it's very explicitly in their constitution, and they've always had it. Nobody in Canada considers it their right to own a gun, probably simply because it's always been restricted.

[OraProMe]

Why on earth was it put in the constitution? Why is it still in the constitution? I'm sure times must have changed...

[BG45]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 November 2009 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1257725173' post='1998483']
I think it's a bigger issue in the US than elsewhere mostly because it's very explicitly in their constitution, and they've always had it. Nobody in Canada considers it their right to own a gun, probably simply because it's always been restricted.
[/quote]

Mainly this that Nihil said.

My personal favorite is the type of person who hears the words "gun control" and automatically thinks people who advocate "gun control" want to ban all guns. For instance, I believe in gun control. Do I think people have a right to defend themselves with a gun? Sure, why not, the Second Amendment seems to say it's okay. Do I think a person needs an AK-47 assault rifle or an Israeli made Uzi sub-machine gun to do so? Not so much. Do I have family members who disagree with my opinion as to the latter in my extended family...most definitely.

Edit:
[quote]Why on earth was it put in the constitution? Why is it still in the constitution? I'm sure times must have changed... [/quote]

To the first, British rule, Revolutionary War/War of Insurrection, volunteer based armies, etc. To the second; ask a room full of people that question and you'll get a large and varied amount of answers ranging from "society glorifies violence" to "why change a good thing that's worked all these years" to "the NRA and like minded groups pay millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to lobbyists to make sure it stays that way".

This is just a personal opinion, but even if we did outlaw private possession of firearms except in extreme circumstances, like the United Kingdom, people would still die to: A) Illegal Guns B)Other weapons. Americans tend to like their individual liberties a bit much to be told by the government they must present identification before buying a pizza cutter because it can be used to stab a man.

Edited November 9, 2009 by BG45

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='08 November 2009 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1257725405' post='1998487']
Why on earth was it put in the constitution? Why is it still in the constitution? I'm sure times must have changed...
[/quote]

Because it is a unalienable Right to defend the lively hood of person, family and property. From Government, fellow citizens, and invading armies.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='08 November 2009 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1257725405' post='1998487']
Why on earth was it put in the constitution? Why is it still in the constitution? I'm sure times must have changed...
[/quote]
Because using the broadsword to defend kith and kin is a bit outdated.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='08 November 2009 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1257725405' post='1998487']
Why on earth was it put in the constitution? Why is it still in the constitution? I'm sure times must have changed...
[/quote]

They're wouldn't be an American Consitution had pre-US colonists not had guns with which to defend their ideals of liberty. Perhaps the founding fathers realized how perniciously government can take away your rights. I've never really studied it, and perhaps it sounds "outdated" or "fundamentalist", but I think the right to bear arms is a guarantee that a citizen is never just a face to be stepped on and a people can stand up to its government...just like the founding father's did in the Revolution.

Obviously no one wants the horrible bloodshed of a war, but the availability of gun ownership by the populace may be another safeguard against a government that wants to take their rights away.

I do not own a gun btw.

[CatherineM]

Winfield Hancock who was a Union General at Gettysburg was elected president of the National Rifle Association in the 1880's. He said, "The object of the NRA is to increase the military strength of the country by making skill in the use of arms as prevalent as it was in the days of the Revolution."

When WWII broke out, a large percentage of men weren't fit for duty because of the affects of malnutrition during the Great Depression. It led to the start of the school lunch program in the US. Today, 50% of all highschool seniors are unfit for duty due to being overweight, and 25% due to hearing damage from iPods and the like. I was raised in a time and place where it was considered our duty to learn how to use a rifle, a sword, a bow, and ride a horse.

When you come right down to it, a country's security is in the capability of individual citizens to defend it. If foreign troops were to come up my street, I would gladly take a spot on the roof and pick off as many as I could. At least I would had I been allowed to bring my rifle into Canada.

[elizabeth09]

[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1358/1079313492_f08c45c575.jpg[/img]

[OraProMe]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='08 November 2009 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1257725617' post='1998490']
Because it is a unalienable Right to defend the lively hood of person, family and property. From Government, fellow citizens, and invading armies.
[/quote]

"From Government"

But in America the government is elected by the citizens (the people with the right to the guns) so why would they need protection from something they chose? Not to mention a democratic government has limitations to its power and we have human rights. Obama can't come into your house, tear down your crucifix and abduct your wife.

"fellow citizens,"

Most Western countries don't give citizens the right to own guns without restriction and they don't suffer from higher crime rates than America. I include my own country in that. In fact don't you think that allowing citizens to have easy access to guns may just be creating a problem? I'm thinking of the large number of class room massacres America has had in the last decade.

"invading armies."

Isn't that why you have an army? I mean especially America! You are numerically and technologically superior to all other foreign armies so if your military can't protect your country from invaders then I doubt civillians with guns could.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='elizabeth09' date='08 November 2009 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1257731409' post='1998564']
[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1358/1079313492_f08c45c575.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I'm not criticizing. I'm interested/confused.

[elizabeth09]

Well, there were some bad images when I type in America And Guns, and then I thought that just the Amercian Flag with out the guns. I was going to do the guns, and then thought not to do it.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='08 November 2009 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1257731923' post='1998571']
"From Government"

But in America the government is elected by the citizens (the people with the right to the guns) so why would they need protection from something they chose? Not to mention a democratic government has limitations to its power and we have human rights. Obama can't come into your house, tear down your crucifix and abduct your wife.

[/quote]

One would think not, but things are not always as they seem.

The first amendment protects freedom of speech and religion, yet courts in California and New York are forcing Catholic Charities to provide contraceptive coverage. So much for the first amendment, eh?

And speaking of "eh?", in Canada, the human rights commission is fining a clergy member for publishing the Catholic Church's position on homosexuality because it constitutes "hate speech". In the US, there are "hate crimes" laws that are being passed that make sodomites a protected class. How much longer before civil suits will be filed for "incitement to violence" against those who merely quote the Bible?

So, to sum it all up, the second amendment protects the first.

[Era Might]

In my opinion, the problem with American society is not so much the Second Amendment. Rather, the problem is that American Christians are among the most vocal defenders of the Second Amendment.

[quote]You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."

But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you.

--Matthew 5:38-42[/quote]
Note that Our Lord does not speak here of [i]rights[/i]. The Christian vocation ultimately transcends recourse to [i]rights[/i], even when those rights are naturally legitimate. It is sad that American Christians are more known for the Second Amendment than they are for "turning the other cheek." We have become so fixated on a natural [i]right to live[/i] that we have lost our sense of the supernatural [i]vocation[/i] to non-violence. We are so fixated on a natural [i]right to property[/i] that we would shoot a man rather than "let him have your cloak as well" (Matthew 5:40).

As I said, the problem with American society, in my opinion, is not so much the Second Amendment in itself. Rather, the problem is that Christians are not an eschatological witness against the Second Amendment. "You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trodden under foot by men" (Matthew 5:13).

[Jesus_lol]