Laudate_Dominum Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='19 November 2009 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1258670214' post='2005835'] Good day. [/quote] I disagree. You have simply made a subjective statement and have not backed it up with any objective evidence. Neutral evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='19 November 2009 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1258667776' post='2005808'] I think all the debates about abortion going on here at Phatmass right now demonstrate that the only way Catholics know how to argue is to make inflammatory or overly emotional "arguments" because they have no more way to prove their side than pro-choice people do. Just saying. [/quote] Well, we say that the "fetus" is a person. Pro-choice people say that the "fetus" is not a person, but have yet to explain what exactly a "fetus" is and how and when a "fetus" becomes a person. We have it figured out. They have yet to sort themselves out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='19 November 2009 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1258670364' post='2005841'] I disagree. You have simply made a subjective statement and have not backed it up with any objective evidence. Neutral evening. [/quote] I apologize, bad night. The darkness is approaching, I have to go to bed early to get up early tomorrow, and there are no groceries in the refrigerator. It is indeed, objectively, a bad night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='19 November 2009 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1258670364' post='2005841'] Neutral evening. [/quote] LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='19 November 2009 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1258670214' post='2005835'] I didn't respond to your post, I responded to YOU. I said I wouldn't respond to the posts about abortion. Good day. [/quote] Perhaps you've quickly forgotten and received some type of selective blindness... but you did respond to my post sir, with the statement. "[u]the arguments you do "construct" are nothing but emotional bullock."[/u] That is a attempt at a rebuttal like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='19 November 2009 - 04:38 PM' timestamp='1258670290' post='2005839'] There is a gross overuse of emotional language in place of actual arguments, so yes. Regardless of the audience, repeating that "abortion is murder" until your head falls off isn't an argument. [/quote] Personally, what I've seen on this thread is -abortion being established as murder objectively, from assumptions already recognized as true by all parties (that part's key) -repetition being necessary when these 'deductive' (from a Catholic perspective) proofs were ignored -a tangent about viability of premature infants which revolved around general logic and current statistics -and finally some very annoyed people (me) who are beginning to regard their opponents as arrogant and intellectually dishonest. Of course I'm extremely biased, but that's not a valid reason to discount my argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='19 November 2009 - 05:40 PM' timestamp='1258670451' post='2005843'] I apologize, bad night. The darkness is approaching, I have to go to bed early to get up early tomorrow, and there are no groceries in the refrigerator. It is indeed, objectively, a bad night. [/quote] Have a beer bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='19 November 2009 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1258670445' post='2005842'] Well, we say that the "fetus" is a person. Pro-choice people say that the "fetus" is not a person, but have yet to explain what exactly a "fetus" is and how and when a "fetus" becomes a person. We have it figured out. They have yet to sort themselves out. [/quote] And for the 1,000th time, saying that a fetus is a person because it has a soul from God doesn't mean jack-poo to atheists, so it only appeals to like-minded people. Saying that you "have it figured out" isn't an argument. Also saying "well if it's not a person, what is it?" isn't an argument. It's a purposeful attempt to confuse the topic enough to make the person "admit" that the fetus is a person. That's not debate, that's deceit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='19 November 2009 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1258670554' post='2005847'] Have a beer bro. [/quote] Alcohol makes my insides twist and turn in knots. My bowels don't much like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='19 November 2009 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1258670665' post='2005849'] Alcohol makes my insides twist and turn in knots. My bowels don't much like it. [/quote] My bad... Maybe some brownies with herbs? j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='19 November 2009 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1258670595' post='2005848'] And for the 1,000th time, saying that a fetus is a person because it has a soul from God doesn't mean jack-poo to atheists, so it only appeals to like-minded people. Saying that you "have it figured out" isn't an argument. Also saying "well if it's not a person, what is it?" isn't an argument. It's a purposeful attempt to confuse the topic enough to make the person "admit" that the fetus is a person. That's not debate, that's deceit. [/quote] Who says pro-life people only argue abortion from a religious or moral standpoint? [b][u]Author[/u] Dr. Fritz Baumgartner graduated from the UCLA School of Medicine in 1984. Dr. Baumgartner received his surgical training at Harbor UCLA, and Thoracic surgery training in Vancouver at the University of British Columbia. From 1992 to 1997 he was Assistant Professor of Cardiothoracic surgery at the UCLA School of Medicine. From 1995 to 1997 he became the Head of Cardiothoracic surgery at Harbor UCLA. Dr. Baumgartner currently works in private practice in Long Beach and Orange County, CA.[/b] [quote] We can approach abortion from many perspectives: Biological, embryological, genetic, philosophical, social and economic, at the very least. As for the first three – my approach as a scientist, physician, surgeon, and simply someone who finished medical school, is factual. [b]There is no more pivotal moment in the subsequent growth and development of a human being than when 23 chromosomes of the father join with 23 chromosomes of the mother to form a unique, 46-chromosomed individual, with a gender, who had previously simply not existed. Period. No debate.[/b] There is no more appropriate moment to begin calling a human "human" than the moment of fertilization. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise, because it would be a degradation of factual embryology to say it would be any other moment. For example, some pro-abortion zealots and even, shockingly, some disingenuous physicians claim it is the moment of primitive notochord formation (nonsense!) or, even more absurdly, the moment of implantation. (It defies sanity to claim that the implantation of a developing blastocyst onto a uterine wall defines humanity more than does the completion of an entirely new DNA map, which defines a new organism's existence). And to say that "size" is a determinant of humanity, of course, is an unscientific reason to deny an embryo his or her human status. In any event, it is an embryological reality, which no embryology textbook on earth denies, that at the moment of fertilization a new human being is formed. [/quote] Full article here: http://www.prolife.com/life_begins.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='19 November 2009 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1258670888' post='2005852'] My bad... Maybe some brownies with herbs? j/k [/quote] Plain brownies would do just fine. But alas, no brownies. I might be able to scrounge up a gingerbread cookie, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 On this thread in particular we've been arguing from a Catholic perspective, using the Catechism and other Church documents as facts, but only because all participants consider themselves Catholic and in theory agree with the factuality of the assumptions. Obviously this debate would be very different if someone from a non-Catholic perspective had been involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 November 2009 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1258670991' post='2005855'] On this thread in particular we've been arguing from a Catholic perspective, using the Catechism and other Church documents as facts, but only because all participants consider themselves Catholic and in theory agree with the factuality of the assumptions. Obviously this debate would be very different if someone from a non-Catholic perspective had been involved. [/quote] Fair enough. I could have picked a better thread to dump my "OMG YOU GUYS" statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='19 November 2009 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1258671045' post='2005856'] Fair enough. I could have picked a better thread to dump my "OMG YOU GUYS" statement. [/quote] Probably. If you want to yell at Jim though, be my guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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