Obama Supports Infanticide

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Winchester' date='19 November 2009 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1258655895' post='2005641']
Not if it's documented that vitals were taken. Simple enough to do, and there is no obligation to work someone once hooked up monitoring devices.
[/quote]


Oh, but why take vitals, when there's absolutely nothing you can do to save the life of the fetus at that point?

If there was a weak heartbeat detected through the stethoscope, it makes little difference. There is nothing medically that you can do to save the life of an infant delivered before 20 weeks, especially one with deformities, such as, heart and lungs are too small to support life.

Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='19 November 2009 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1258656233' post='2005647']
Oh, but why take vitals, when there's absolutely nothing you can do to save the life of the fetus at that point?

If there was a weak heartbeat detected through the stethoscope, it makes little difference. There is nothing medically that you can do to save the life of an infant delivered before 20 weeks, especially one with deformities, such as, heart and lungs are too small to support life.

Jim
[/quote]
Oh, our mistake. Didn't realize you were an OB/GYN.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 November 2009 - 02:46 PM' timestamp='1258656365' post='2005650']
Oh, our mistake. Didn't realize you were an OB/GYN.
[/quote]


What difference would it make to you if I was?

You'd still throw out the opinion of a medical expert over a writer at Lifesitenews. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif[/img]


Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='19 November 2009 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1258656856' post='2005657']
What difference would it make to you if I was?

You'd still throw out the opinion of a medical expert over a writer at Lifesitenews. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif[/img]


Jim
[/quote]
Well your opinion on it being completely impossible to save a 20 week premie might actually mean something if you were an obstetrician/gynecologist.
Otherwise it's just uninformed opinion posing as fact.

Is it possible [u]with current technology[/u]? Maybe, maybe not. It is however, generally accepted that technology is increasing an an accelerated rate. It would be reckless and irresponsible to assume that saving a 20 week child is completely impossible in all circumstances.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 November 2009 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1258657070' post='2005662']
Well your opinion on it being completely impossible to save a 20 week premie might actually mean something if you were an obstetrician/gynecologist.
Otherwise it's just uninformed opinion posing as fact.

Is it possible [u]with current technology[/u]? Maybe, maybe not. It is however, generally accepted that technology is increasing an an accelerated rate. It would be reckless and irresponsible to assume that saving a 20 week child is completely impossible in all circumstances.
[/quote]


From the Mayo Clinic.

[quote]
[b]For babies[/b]
The risks of premature birth vary depending on how soon a baby is born. Although survival is possible for babies born as early as 23 to 26 weeks, the risks are greatest for the youngest babies.

Complications of premature birth may include:

[list][*]Difficulty breathing[*]Episodes of stopped breathing (apnea)[*]Bleeding in the brain (intracranial hemorrhage)[*]Fluid accumulation in the brain (hydrocephalus)[*]Cerebral palsy and other neurological problems[*]Vision problems[*]Intestinal problems[*]Developmental delays[*]Learning disabilities[/list]Less serious complications may include:

[list][*]Yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes (jaundice)[*]Lack of red blood cells (anemia)[*]Low blood pressure[/list][url="http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/premature-birth/DS00137/DSECTION=complications[/quote"]http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/premature-birth/DS00137/DSECTION=complications

[/url][/quote]

Younger than 20 weeks, they won't do anything.

Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='19 November 2009 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1258658149' post='2005676']
From the Mayo Clinic.



Younger than 20 weeks, they won't do anything.

Jim
[/quote]
Do you deny that technology makes possible things that have previously been considered inconceivable?

[JimR-OCDS]

Also;

[quote]Many premature infants require special care in a neonatal intensive care unit (NICU), where their heart function, breathing, blood pressure, and body temperature can be closely monitored, and oxygen, ventilators, and tube feeding are available. With the level of care available in these facilities, infants as young as 25 or 26 weeks can be helped to survive. [url="http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/premature-birth"]http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/premature-birth[/url]
[/quote]

Like I said earlier. My son was born at 27 weeks and so I keep up to date on the issue, and
they will not try to keep alive, babies born earlier than 20 weeks. They know they can't do it, and its cruel to try.


Jim

Edited November 19, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[Nihil Obstat]

I was somewhat premature, and one of my lungs collapsed, the other partially collapsed. A hundred years ago, nobody would have been able to save me. They would have thought it to be entirely out of the realm of possibility.
Well I'm pretty glad that as medical technology progressed, some radical crazy doctors realized that yes, in fact they probably could start to save people who were previously beyond all hope.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 November 2009 - 03:17 PM' timestamp='1258658260' post='2005679']
Do you deny that technology makes possible things that have previously been considered inconceivable?
[/quote]


Of course, but they've already come to the conclusion, that earlier than 20 weeks is not going to ever happen and have stopped trying.

As it is, kids born 23-28 weeks have so many problems, its enough to deal with.

Jim

[JimR-OCDS]

I know you won't believe me, but here's one more try.

[quote]Babies born earlier than 25 weeks are generally classed as medically "non-viable," while just half of the babies born at 25 weeks manage to survive.

Amillia Taylor was born at a Miami hospital one month earlier than the date considered viable for most babies, at just 21 weeks and six days gestation. She weighed less than 10 oz and was just nine ½ inches long. Amillia is the youngest known baby worldwide to survive premature birth, although medical advancements continue to improve the chances of early survival for infants who leave the womb ahead of schedule
[url="http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080917072649AAwR65k"]http://answers.yahoo...17072649AAwR65k
[/url][/quote]

BTW, girl babies do better than boy babies, because their lungs develope as much as two weeks earlier than boys.

Jim

Edited November 19, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[Nihil Obstat]

What magically happens between the twentieth and twenty first week? I have no problem imagining that it's only a matter of available technology.
In fact I can imagine a time when technology is advanced enough that a human child could be conceived and brought to term entirely in a laboratory setting. I'm not saying I want that to happen, but I don't see it being beyond the realm of possibility.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Nihil Obstat

[JimR-OCDS]

one more;

Q
[size="3"]What is the survival rate for a fetus born at 20 weeks?
[/size]
[size="3"]There is a 0 - 10% survival rate for 22 weeks, according to info on various websites including [url="http://www.squidoo.com/preemiesurvivalrates"]http://www.squidoo.c...iesurvivalrates[/url][/size][size="3"]
[/size][size="3"]
[size="3"][/size]Your niece did not deliver any baby at 18 weeks or she'd be in every major newspaper all over the world. There has never been a baby to survive being born at 18 weeks and unless medical science can find a way to keep such a tiny thing alive outside of the womb, there won't be any. Doctors do not resucitate a baby at 22 weeks - chances of survival at 22 weeks is at 0% . At 23 weeks, ten percent of babies survive and those who do, do not "do great" at 6 months.
[url="http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_survival_rate_for_a_fetus_born_at_20_weeks"]http://wiki.answers....orn_at_20_weeks[/url]

Jim

[/size]

Edited November 19, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='19 November 2009 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1258658854' post='2005688']
one more;

Q
[size="3"]What is the survival rate for a fetus born at 20 weeks?
[/size]
[size="3"]There is a 0 - 10% survival rate for 22 weeks, according to info on various websites including [url="http://www.squidoo.com/preemiesurvivalrates"]http://www.squidoo.c...iesurvivalrates[/url][/size][size="3"]
[/size][size="3"]
[size="3"][/size]Your niece did not deliver any baby at 18 weeks or she'd be in every major newspaper all over the world. There has never been a baby to survive being born at 18 weeks and unless medical science can find a way to keep such a tiny thing alive outside of the womb, there won't be any. Doctors do not resucitate a baby at 22 weeks - chances of survival at 22 weeks is at 0% . At 23 weeks, ten percent of babies survive and those who do, do not "do great" at 6 months.
[url="http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_survival_rate_for_a_fetus_born_at_20_weeks"]http://wiki.answers....orn_at_20_weeks[/url]

Jim

[/size]
[/quote]
Look... I. Don't. Care.

Has it ever been done? No.

Is it literally an impossibility for it ever to happen at any point in the future?
I think you'd have to be a complete dolt to contend that that is the case.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 November 2009 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1258658563' post='2005686']
What magically happens between the twentieth and twenty first week? I have no problem imagining that it's only a matter of available technology.
In fact I can imagine a time when technology is advanced enough that a human child could be conceived and brought to term entirely in a laboratory setting. I'm not saying I want that to happen, but I don't see it being beyond the realm of possibility.
[/quote]


The biggest issue is the development of the lungs.

Our lungs are like balloons, in that we breath air into them, but the air stays inside, and keeps the lung semi-inflated.
In order to keep air from passing through the lung, there is a membrane on the outside, which seals the lungs.

In a premature baby, who is less than 20 weeks. This membrane is not developed. As a result, if you put air into the lung, it goes through and fills the chest cavity.

In my sons case, who was 27 weeks. The air passed through his lungs and into his chest cavity. The pressure outside the lung becomes greater than the pressure inside, and the lungs collapsed. This caused hemorrhaging throughout his body. To save him, they put four chest tubes into his chest to smell of elderberries out the air in his chest, while providing oxygen and pressure to the inside of his lungs.

This works except that there are complications that I won't bother to get into.

The docs said if my son were born a girl, this might not have happened.

Jim

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 November 2009 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1258659182' post='2005694']
Look... I. Don't. Care.

Has it ever been done? No.

Is it literally an impossibility for it ever to happen at any point in the future?
I think you'd have to be a complete dolt to contend that that is the case.
[/quote]


Well, you're the one who attacked my opinion;

[quote]Well your opinion on it being completely impossible to save a 20 week premie might actually mean something if you were an obstetrician/gynecologist.
Otherwise it's just uninformed opinion posing as fact.
[/quote]

I'm merely providing the information to back my opinion.



Jim

Edited November 19, 2009 by JimR-OCDS