Nihil Obstat Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I'm in philosophy class. (Hating it) Here's the question we're discussing: Given the fact that Stephen Harper did become Prime Minister, does God have the ability to make Stephen Harper have never been Prime Minister? Can God take an event that happened and make it have never happened? Discussing God in an intro philosophy class is lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 yes he did it twice. prove me wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' date='06 November 2009 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1257530428' post='1997176'] prove me wrong [/quote]He doesn't exist. Sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='06 November 2009 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1257530510' post='1997178'] He doesn't exist. Sorted. [/quote] Dude Stephen Harper totally exists.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' date='06 November 2009 - 01:10 PM' timestamp='1257531046' post='1997189'] Dude Stephen Harper totally exists.. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth09 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 He does exist. Then how did we get here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 November 2009 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1257529023' post='1997158'] I'm in philosophy class. (Hating it) Here's the question we're discussing: Given the fact that Stephen Harper did become Prime Minister, does God have the ability to make Stephen Harper have never been Prime Minister? Can God take an event that happened and make it have never happened? Discussing God in an intro philosophy class is lame. [/quote] St Augustine addresses the same question in the "Confessions." Something to the effect of, God can not do what is contradictory to perfect love. If, taking free will away is against prefect love, then He can not do it. Maybe I should go look it up to get it exact. Jim Edited November 6, 2009 by JimR-OCDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 12:35 PM' timestamp='1257532547' post='1997202'] St Augustine addresses the same question in the "Confessions." Something to the effect of, God can not do what is contradictory to perfect love. If, taking free will away is against prefect love, then He can not do it. Maybe I should go look it up to get it exact. Jim [/quote] Consider a neutral event that has occurred. Can it be made to not have occurred? Doesn't concern love, just intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 November 2009 - 02:47 PM' timestamp='1257533264' post='1997211'] Consider a neutral event that has occurred. Can it be made to not have occurred? Doesn't concern love, just intervention. [/quote] Concerning the question he posted, no. Because God would have to force people to vote one way or another, which would be against free will. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1257534913' post='1997237'] Concerning the question he posted, no. Because God would have to force people to vote one way or another, which would be against free will. Jim [/quote] All right, so let's take the human element out. In some desolate area in the Rockies with no people nearby, there is a rockslide. Given that this event did happen, could God make it so that it never did occur? Can God "take it back"? Take back a piece of reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Well, technically, he COULD, but He imposes restrictions upon Himself. As He allows us to have free will, then He will not do such a thing to interfere with our free will. On target? Or off base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1257534913' post='1997237'] Concerning the question he posted, no. Because God would have to force people to vote one way or another, which would be against free will. Jim [/quote] True, but could God maybe bring about the candidate's death? In which case the event of his election would not occur and free will remain intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='CatholicCid' date='06 November 2009 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1257535086' post='1997239'] Well, technically, he COULD, but He imposes restrictions upon Himself. As He allows us to have free will, then He will not do such a thing to interfere with our free will. On target? Or off base? [/quote] [quote name='goldenchild17' date='06 November 2009 - 01:19 PM' timestamp='1257535195' post='1997242'] True, but could God maybe bring about the candidate's death? In which case the event of his election would not occur and free will remain intact. [/quote] See my above post for clarification. It's not really about the effect of the event, it's about the reality of the event itself. Could the reality of that event be revoked, so that it was no longer real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 November 2009 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1257535067' post='1997238'] All right, so let's take the human element out. In some desolate area in the Rockies with no people nearby, there is a rockslide. Given that this event did happen, could God make it so that it never did occur? Can God "take it back"? Take back a piece of reality? [/quote] oh okay, so you're referring to events that have already actually happened? Could God reverse an event that has already physically occurred? interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 November 2009 - 03:17 PM' timestamp='1257535067' post='1997238'] All right, so let's take the human element out. In some desolate area in the Rockies with no people nearby, there is a rockslide. Given that this event did happen, could God make it so that it never did occur? Can God "take it back"? Take back a piece of reality? [/quote] Of course, God has power over nature. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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