10 Misunderstandings About The Church

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 November 2009 - 11:01 AM' timestamp='1257440483' post='1996560']
+J.M.J.+

um, yeah. i wish i wasn't out of positives.



[/quote]

I'm not saying that I'm against babies automatically going to heaven, just that I think its still open for discussion at this point. As for me personally, I believe in limbo because I believe if it doesn't exist, then it would seriously diminish the importance of the sacrament of Baptism. And yes I know about baptism of desire, but I don't see how it can be applied in this case.

Edited November 6, 2009 by goldenchild17

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='06 November 2009 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1257473907' post='1996870']
This is known as "Baptism of Desire".
"For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament" (CCC 1259).
[/quote]
I'm happy that we are now on good terms!

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='05 November 2009 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1257473907' post='1996870']
This is known as "Baptism of Desire".
"For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament" (CCC 1259).
[/quote]

But how does an unborn infant illustrate an explicit desire for baptism?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 November 2009 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1257444281' post='1996588']
I'm going to continue maintaining that Latin Catholics agree with you.
[/quote]
Evidently not all Latin Catholics agree.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='06 November 2009 - 09:20 AM' timestamp='1257520802' post='1997084']
Evidently not all Latin Catholics agree.
[/quote]

Which is not an uncommon occurrence for non-infallible areas of interest

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='06 November 2009 - 09:20 AM' timestamp='1257520802' post='1997084']
Evidently not all Latin Catholics agree.
[/quote]


[quote name='goldenchild17' date='06 November 2009 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1257522126' post='1997090']
Which is not an uncommon occurrence for non-infallible areas of interest
[/quote]
I agree with the pope's statements that I've posted here before, specifically the ones that I quoted from Spirit of the Liturgy.

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='06 November 2009 - 04:42 AM' timestamp='1257500534' post='1997019']
I'm not saying that I'm against babies automatically going to heaven, just that I think its still open for discussion at this point. As for me personally, I believe in limbo because I believe if it doesn't exist, then it would seriously diminish the importance of the sacrament of Baptism. And yes I know about baptism of desire, but I don't see how it can be applied in this case.
[/quote]


I'll try to give this a shot. The smarter people can correct me or just completely shoot me down.

I dont believe this "new" theory on limbo dimishes baptism in the least. Sacraments are the medium of grace. Grace is the love and power of God bestowed on us to reshape us into holier people and help us on our path to him. Christ established the sacraments as part of his church for those who go through the journey of life.

I think there is a possibility that God can offer that same Grace after death, and maybe even give that person the ability to give a proper yes or no? Why not? He's God. The law was made for man, not man for the law. This doesnt change the importance of baptism for the rest of us. But for these special cases, the journey is over before it begins.

That's where I see it. And I think the way the catechism states it is a much wiser way to handle the situation. Especially since, atleast here in the State, this was one of those dumb issues that NO ONE understood correctly, and many people used it as an excuse to hate on the church.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='cappie' date='05 November 2009 - 01:38 AM' timestamp='1257403092' post='1996458']


[b]7. Catholics believe that sex was the "original sin" of Adam and Eve:[/b] Though many Catholics have believed this in the past and may still believe it here in the present, it is definitely not the official teaching of the Catholic Church. The original sin was one of pretentious disregard of God's commandment, not the act of lust. Pride is the worst sin of all, and the root of all sin. Again, that is not the teaching of Mother Church. The original sin contains the important significance of the sin of Adam, particularly, the absence of pure mercy in the spirit, not the act in where a child’s life was created.


[url="http://www.onlinedegree.net/10-common-misunderstandings-of-the-catholic-church-explained/"]http://www.onlinedegree.net/10-common-misunderstandings-of-the-catholic-church-explained/[/url]
[/quote]

Where in the world does this misconception come from? What does that have to do with eating of the forbidden fruit?


I'm surprised that worshipping Mary and the saints wasn't included as a misconception.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='07 November 2009 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1257539811' post='1997307']
I'll try to give this a shot. The smarter people can correct me or just completely shoot me down.

I dont believe this "new" theory on limbo dimishes baptism in the least. Sacraments are the medium of grace. Grace is the love and power of God bestowed on us to reshape us into holier people and help us on our path to him. Christ established the sacraments as part of his church for those who go through the journey of life.

I think there is a possibility that God can offer that same Grace after death, and maybe even give that person the ability to give a proper yes or no? Why not? He's God. The law was made for man, not man for the law. This doesnt change the importance of baptism for the rest of us. But for these special cases, the journey is over before it begins.

That's where I see it. And I think the way the catechism states it is a much wiser way to handle the situation. Especially since, atleast here in the State, this was one of those dumb issues that NO ONE understood correctly, and many people used it as an excuse to hate on the church.
[/quote]

They might not agree but I doubt that someone could shoot it down. It seems pretty smart to me.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='06 November 2009 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1257502194' post='1997021']
But how does an unborn infant illustrate an explicit desire for baptism?
[/quote]

The infant has not had the opportunity for free will. So Jesus does it for them by default.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='06 November 2009 - 03:36 PM' timestamp='1257539811' post='1997307']
I'll try to give this a shot. The smarter people can correct me or just completely shoot me down.

I dont believe this "new" theory on limbo dimishes baptism in the least. Sacraments are the medium of grace. Grace is the love and power of God bestowed on us to reshape us into holier people and help us on our path to him. Christ established the sacraments as part of his church for those who go through the journey of life.

I think there is a possibility that God can offer that same Grace after death, and maybe even give that person the ability to give a proper yes or no? Why not? He's God. The law was made for man, not man for the law. This doesnt change the importance of baptism for the rest of us. But for these special cases, the journey is over before it begins.

That's where I see it. And I think the way the catechism states it is a much wiser way to handle the situation. Especially since, atleast here in the State, this was one of those dumb issues that NO ONE understood correctly, and many people used it as an excuse to hate on the church.
[/quote]

I do like what you said, so i quoted and reposted it because it was pretty good.

Another thing that can be added here is that the Sacrament of Baptism is a Sacrament of Initiation, namely initiation into the community of believers, initiation into the Church. If you have observed the RCIA process, or researched some of the history, Initiation comes across as a beautiful process of death, renunciation of satan and sin, learning, purification, spiritual warfare, Resurrection, Glory, New Life, Mystagogy. Grace is so much a part of it, but the process, adventure, the romance of living the Paschal Mystery, nothing quite compares. In fact, sometimes I am jealous that I was raised by people who were not quite sure what they believed or what the Church taught, and I was baptized, perhaps in fear of limbo, perhaps in order to get a ticket into heaven, without any sense of living a LIFE FOR CHRIST, to be a Christ, anointed priest, prophet, and king, and to just live affectively as if nothing happened. (not to say that nothing effective ever happened of course).

One of the troubles, I think, is that we get caught up so much on legal arguements of justification, and sometimes forget about the RIGHT NOW living the Life of Christ, the participation in Divine Life, the participation in the community of disciples, the sharing in the One True Body of Christ in the Eucharist, something lived, touched, felt, experienced, inspiring, i think its that romantic adventure that many people are longing for, and we are hung up on giving them the rules, but forget how to initiate them into the experience.

Edited November 7, 2009 by MC IMaGiNaZUN

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='MC IMaGiNaZUN' date='08 November 2009 - 04:12 AM' timestamp='1257613930' post='1997752']

One of the troubles, I think, is that we get caught up so much on legal arguements of justification, and sometimes forget about the RIGHT NOW living the Life of Christ, the participation in Divine Life, the participation in the community of disciples, the sharing in the One True Body of Christ in the Eucharist, something lived, touched, felt, experienced, inspiring, i think its that romantic adventure that many people are longing for, and we are hung up on giving them the rules, but forget how to initiate them into the experience.
[/quote]

I like that! It's so often true!