Father And Son Bond

[Slappo]

[quote name='StColette' date='04 November 2009 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1257373785' post='1996250']
Or sent to a zoo.
[/quote]

Fiscally this isn't reasonable. I live in Alaska and we get many many black bears that begin to live in neighborhoods off of trash they pull out of peoples trash cans. They can even wind up hanging around the middle schools. These's bears are sedated and then relocated, but often they will move right back to where they were. It's expensive enough to sedate and relocate... to sedate and then transport to a different city since we have no zoo would be very expensive to do considering how frequent it happens. The only way out of my hometown is boat or plane so they can't just put him in a truck and go... it'd be a multi leg journey.

Bear populations in Sitka, Alaska are extremely high and brown bears (up to 1,200 lbs) come wandering through the city because they are not hunted.

[Saint Therese]

I think it would be sweet if you could hunt deer with claymores.

[JimR-OCDS]

Here's a quote from St Francis, that says it all, with regards to the thread.

[quote]
If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. [/quote]


Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1257530587' post='1997181']
Nihil Obstat




This was a theory by traditionalist MA people, but was proven bogus in the Mixed Martial Arts arena.

The only thing that happens is, as you get older, people consider you less of a threat, so you have the element of surprise should they try anything.

However, as young people respect people of age less in our culture, they could care less of what you know or don't know, they don't treat you with any sense of concern. Same holds true for women. When I grew up, hitting a girl was a mortal sin, and my father punished me the first time I hit a girl. Today however, boys and girls are treated equal, and there's little respect for the weaker sex. As a result, young thugs punching a female's lights out is not uncommon these days, unfortunately.






It doesn't take MA to become a better person, in fact, I've seen many bad results from those who trained in MA. OH yeah, thats right, its the bad instructor, not the student. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]





Yeah, against the average person, you can fight better., because most people don't generally get into real fights. Against a street fighter who does it for pleasure, you'll get your *** handed to you.
Trust me, I've seen it.



Not to insult you but, if they had six months training in MMA, they'd do better. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/P.gif[/img]



Good for you.

Jim
[/quote]
I take issue with this condescension, so I'm not going to reply.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1257532115' post='1997197']
Here's a quote from St Francis, that says it all, with regards to the thread.




Jim
[/quote]
This depends on how you define compassion and pity. Animals should be treated well because God created them. However they were put here to serve us, so hunting them to put food on the table isn't a bad thing.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='06 November 2009 - 02:46 PM' timestamp='1257533166' post='1997208']
This depends on how you define compassion and pity. Animals should be treated well because God created them. However they were put here to serve us, so hunting them to put food on the table isn't a bad thing.
[/quote]

Agreed.

Jim

[StColette]

[quote name='Slappo' date='06 November 2009 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1257531498' post='1997191']
Fiscally this isn't reasonable. I live in Alaska and we get many many black bears that begin to live in neighborhoods off of trash they pull out of peoples trash cans. They can even wind up hanging around the middle schools. These's bears are sedated and then relocated, but often they will move right back to where they were. It's expensive enough to sedate and relocate... to sedate and then transport to a different city since we have no zoo would be very expensive to do considering how frequent it happens. The only way out of my hometown is boat or plane so they can't just put him in a truck and go... it'd be a multi leg journey.

Bear populations in Sitka, Alaska are extremely high and brown bears (up to 1,200 lbs) come wandering through the city because they are not hunted.
[/quote]

that's why I said "or to a zoo" meaning there could be another possible solution in some places than just killing them Sending to the zoo, as you pointed out, isn't always an option but for some cases it can be

[Sojourner]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1257517262' post='1997053']
Its not a matter of not eating meat, nor is it a matter of killing animals for that purpose, in order to survive.

I'm not a vegetarian, and I believe eating meat is a part of a healthy diet. Heck, I follow the Atkins diet.

As I said, I'm also not opposed to hunting.

I no longer hunt, because for the individual who hunts, there is a level of violence involved. Not all shots are clean shots.

Also, not all hunting is done to cull the herds. I watched many hunting shows on the out door network and have been to Texas, where sales reps take customers out to hunting preserves.

Also, I use to hunt pheasants, and anyone who knows, pheasants are not native to this country, and in fact, don't survive well out in the wild. In fact, they're raised on farms, and then stocked in management areas, in the fall. Those birds which are not shot, are either killed by hawks or foxes, or die from the elements.

As it was, when I hunted, because these birds were raised on farms, they're often use to dogs. My hunting dog on occasion would bring a bird back alive, because the bird wouldn't fly up, but just sat there for the dog to pick up. I would ring its neck and of course I ate whatever I killed.

But, the level of violence involved, soon began to repulse me, and I lost my interest in hunting.

I now see God's creation as a gift, and we need to treat animals humanely. The factory farms and stock yards are a disgrace.

Anyway, its my preference, and those who still desire to hunt, so be it.

I just think that as you grow spiritually, you'll grow away from such things.

I use to do martial arts and was a boxing fan. I grew away from those things as well.

Jim
[/quote]
I think it is a matter of not eating meat. If the violence truly bothers you, I fail to see any consistency in holding that it's spiritually more mature (for you) to eat meat purchased in a supermarket vs. meat from an animal you've hunted. You don't sound like someone who hunted purely for sport -- you say, in fact, that you ate what you hunted. So to say it's better (or, a sign of spiritual growth) to eat something someone else has killed -- particularly when it is an animal raised on a factory farm solely for the purpose of human consumption ... I just fail to see the distinction here, as far as treating animals well.

I do believe God's creation is a gift, and that we should not inflict unnecessary suffering on an animal. But if we are going to say eating meat is OK, then I cannot see how it would be spiritually better to have an animal killed by someone else than to kill it yourself.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='06 November 2009 - 04:47 PM' timestamp='1257540448' post='1997311']
I think it is a matter of not eating meat. If the violence truly bothers you, I fail to see any consistency in holding that it's spiritually more mature (for you) to eat meat purchased in a supermarket vs. meat from an animal you've hunted. You don't sound like someone who hunted purely for sport -- you say, in fact, that you ate what you hunted. So to say it's better (or, a sign of spiritual growth) to eat something someone else has killed -- particularly when it is an animal raised on a factory farm solely for the purpose of human consumption ... I just fail to see the distinction here, as far as treating animals well.

I do believe God's creation is a gift, and that we should not inflict unnecessary suffering on an animal. But if we are going to say eating meat is OK, then I cannot see how it would be spiritually better to have an animal killed by someone else than to kill it yourself.
[/quote]

FYI, I was talking about sport hunting, not hunting to feed your family and yourself.



Jim

Edited November 6, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[Sojourner]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1257540758' post='1997318']
FYI, I was talking about sport hunting, not hunting to feed your family and yourself.



Jim
[/quote]
It's been repeatedly noted that we aren't talking about sport hunting.

[StColette]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='06 November 2009 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1257541228' post='1997328']
It's been repeatedly noted that we aren't talking about sport hunting.
[/quote]

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='06 November 2009 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1257541228' post='1997328']
It's been repeatedly noted that we aren't talking about sport hunting.
[/quote]


But your post was to me, and whether I was being morally inconsistent when it came to eating meat.

My opposition to myself hunting for spiritual reasons, has to do with "sport hunting," not hunting out of necessity.


Jim

[Slappo]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1257543734' post='1997349']
But your post was to me, and whether I was being morally inconsistent when it came to eating meat.

My opposition to myself hunting for spiritual reasons, has to do with "sport hunting," not hunting out of necessity.


Jim
[/quote]

I don't fish out of necessity, but out of pleasure of two things: 1. The fun in catching the fish, the friends to go with, etc. 2. The pleasure of eating fish (it is very expensive), not only the taste of the fish, but the knowledge that I am able to feed myself with food I caught by my own hands.

Not to be sexist, but it is a pretty manly experience to catch a fish, make a campfire, and cook it right there. You feel accomplished and capable of fending for yourself/family.

[Winchester]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 09:12 AM' timestamp='1257516777' post='1997049']
Read about St Francis of Assisi, who saw God in all things.

One day St Francis picked up a handful of dirt and stated, "I feel the pulse of God, even in this
dirth."

I believe St Francis was Catholic. [s][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] [/s]
Jim
[/quote]
I knew St. Francis. St. Francis was a friend of mine. You, sir, are no St. Francis.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Slappo' date='06 November 2009 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1257544772' post='1997353']
I don't fish out of necessity, but out of pleasure of two things: 1. The fun in catching the fish, the friends to go with, etc. 2. The pleasure of eating fish (it is very expensive), not only the taste of the fish, but the knowledge that I am able to feed myself with food I caught by my own hands.

Not to be sexist, but it is a pretty manly experience to catch a fish, make a campfire, and cook it right there. You feel accomplished and capable of fending for yourself/family.
[/quote]


I use to fish, and I ate whatever I caught. Fly Fishing was my first love, and I would spend the winter tying new flies to try out in the spring. However, I just lost the interest in it. Maybe it has to do with my lack of time, being I have to commute back and forth to work, which takes 3hrs. Nah, I never liked cleaning fish and liked even less, gutting an animal I shot.

As far as being a manly thing, well I have to disagree. My wife loves fishing. We live at a lake, and she'll often go down to the shoreline and fish. I'll stay in the house reading or watching a good movie. However, my rule is, you catch it and keep it, you clean it, but I'll cook it.
I'm the cook in the house. However, she hasn't brought anything home as of yet. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img]

Jim