Father And Son Bond

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 November 2009 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1257517382' post='1997054']
Don't tell me you have problems with martial arts too. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img]
[/quote]


No, only that most, its a waste of time and money.

Most of the MA taught in American Karate schools is useless, and expensive.

I was involved in MA before the Ultimate Fight competitions came into being. I joined a
MA self-defense school and was paying about $70 per month.

Then, I linked up with a couple of guys who trained in boxing. One however was also a 2nd degree Black Belt in Shotokan, but he became anti-American Karate schools advocate, especially after training at a boxing gym.

These two guys taught me, and a bunch of other MA enthusiast, why we were wasting time and money training in our perspective MA schools. BTW, a couple of the guys were instructors at their own schools.

Anyway, over the intra-net that we were on, the debates got heated, until they started coming to train with us, and began to see the light.

Then, the ultimate fight series came on, and proved the point.

Anyway, I just grew out of it, but now I see the mixed MA competitions as one step above the Roman Gladiators. I wonder if we'll get to the point where killing in the competition, even if its just once in a while, is OK? Fact is, before the government took control and put some regulations in place, a couple of guys did in fact get killed. But, the argument goes in our pro-choice society, it was their choice. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smokey.gif[/img]

Jim

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='06 November 2009 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1257519891' post='1997075']
So was St Michael ArchAngel and St George, the saints with the swords...
[/quote]


Would it be correct to call an Angel a Catholic?
Even if you do, I doubt he hunts animals here on earth, for sport.

Which St. George are you referring to?

Jim

Edited November 6, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 09:35 AM' timestamp='1257521705' post='1997088']
No, only that most, its a waste of time and money.

Most of the MA taught in American Karate schools is useless, and expensive.

I was involved in MA before the Ultimate Fight competitions came into being. I joined a
MA self-defense school and was paying about $70 per month.

Then, I linked up with a couple of guys who trained in boxing. One however was also a 2nd degree Black Belt in Shotokan, but he became anti-American Karate schools advocate, especially after training at a boxing gym.

These two guys taught me, and a bunch of other MA enthusiast, why we were wasting time and money training in our perspective MA schools. BTW, a couple of the guys were instructors at their own schools.

Anyway, over the intra-net that we were on, the debates got heated, until they started coming to train with us, and began to see the light.

Then, the ultimate fight series came on, and proved the point.

Anyway, I just grew out of it, but now I see the mixed MA competitions as one step above the Roman Gladiators. I wonder if we'll get to the point where killing in the competition, even if its just once in a while, is OK? Fact is, before the government took control and put some regulations in place, a couple of guys did in fact get killed. But, the argument goes in our pro-choice society, it was their choice. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smokey.gif[/img]

Jim
[/quote]
I skipped over most of that once I realized you weren't trying to say that Catholics shouldn't practice martial arts.
I'm in a traditional version of Shotokan karate, and I find that it compliments Catholicism in a huge variety of ways, including but not limited to respect for authority and superiors, and the proper functioning of a hierarchy.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 10:12 AM' timestamp='1257516777' post='1997049']
Read about St Francis of Assisi, who saw God in all things.

One day St Francis picked up a handful of dirt and stated, "I feel the pulse of God, even in this
dirth."

I believe St Francis was Catholic. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Jim
[/quote]

St. Francis also enjoyed fishing.

~Sternhauser

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 November 2009 - 11:58 AM' timestamp='1257523105' post='1997095']
I skipped over most of that once I realized you weren't trying to say that Catholics shouldn't practice martial arts.
I'm in a traditional version of Shotokan karate, and I find that it compliments Catholicism in a huge variety of ways, including but not limited to respect for authority and superiors, and the proper functioning of a hierarchy.
[/quote]
Yep. My daughter did Tang Soo Do with Master Kim, and there was great emphasis on discipline, respect, and obedience. I always told her it was good training to be nun

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 11:37 AM' timestamp='1257521874' post='1997089']
Would it be correct to call an Angel a Catholic?
Even if you do, I doubt he hunts animals here on earth, for sport.

Which St. George are you referring to?

Jim
[/quote]
Again I said I am not talking about sports hunting remember?

[JimR-OCDS]

Nihil Obstat

[quote]including but not limited to respect for authority and superiors, and the proper functioning of a hierarchy.[/quote]

There is a discipline to MA training, but I don't need to pay a MA instructor who speaks poor Japanese to show me how.

I eventually migrated to Tai Chi, then Yoga.

Now, I mostly just do Gilad workouts and walk everyday.

The thing is, when I was MA training, I started at age 38 and quit when I hit 42. I was sparing with 26 year olds and for the most part, I just looked silly, even though they took it easy on me. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img]

Also, I had so many injuries, sprains and even a cracked rib, I couldn't say it was a healthy activity for me.

Its generally a young persons sport.

Jim

Edited November 6, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='06 November 2009 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1257523532' post='1997101']
Again I said I am not talking about sports hunting remember?
[/quote]


Well, I'm not sure why you brought them up?

I was accused of not holding Catholic beliefs, because I see God in all creation.

I brought up St Francis, who saw God in all creation, and he of course, was Catholic.

Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 10:06 AM' timestamp='1257523603' post='1997105']
Nihil Obstat



There is a discipline to MA training, but I don't need to pay a MA instructor who speaks poor Japanese to show me how.

I eventually migrated to Tai Chi, then Yoga.

Now, I mostly just do Gilad workouts and walk everyday.

The thing is, when I was MA training, I started at age 38 and quit when I hit 42. I was sparing with 26 year olds and for the most part, I just looked silly, even though they took it easy on me. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img]

Also, I had so many injuries, sprains and even a cracked rib, I couldn't say it was a healthy activity for me.

Its generally a young persons sport.

Jim
[/quote]
We don't bother training full contact. It's just counter productive. Way better to use your time learning instead of constantly recovering from one injury or another.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='06 November 2009 - 12:02 PM' timestamp='1257523376' post='1997099']
St. Francis also enjoyed fishing.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


I don't recall ever reading about St Francis fishing.

Not saying he didn't, but he was a vegetarian, but I believe this was more out
of self mortification than opposition to killing animals, because in his day and culture, eating
animals was a necessary part of life.

The point however, is his love for God was so deep, he saw God in all of creation, not in a pantheistic way, but in the way a son may see his father in the house he built, or the painting\
he did.

Jim

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 November 2009 - 12:13 PM' timestamp='1257523998' post='1997110']
We don't bother training full contact. It's just counter productive. Way better to use your time learning instead of constantly recovering from one injury or another.
[/quote]


But learning, especially in MA, come through experience.

Its why, the only traditional martial arts to succeed in the Ultimate Fight series is Ju Jitsu, from
Brazil, were full contact is real. Traditional Karate experts from around the world, were easily defeated by those who have real fight experience.

Full contact in the MA schools when I was training, was limited to body shots, and when you scored a point, the instructor stopped you and reset you.

Unlike a boxing ring, where, when the bell rings, you fight to defend yourself or get hurt.
No stopping for points or because the instructor tells you that its too deadly to allow full contact. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img]

Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 10:24 AM' timestamp='1257524685' post='1997122']
But learning, especially in MA, come through experience.

Its why, the only traditional martial arts to succeed in the Ultimate Fight series is Ju Jitsu, from
Brazil, were full contact is real. Traditional Karate experts from around the world, were easily defeated by those who have real fight experience.

Full contact in the MA schools when I was training, was limited to body shots, and when you scored a point, the instructor stopped you and reset you.

Unlike a boxing ring, where, when the bell rings, you fight to defend yourself or get hurt.
No stopping for points or because the instructor tells you that its too deadly to allow full contact. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img]

Jim
[/quote]
There are two desired outcomes from martial arts training: self defense and making yourself a better person.
My theory is that training in traditional martial arts can bring you to the same, or nearly the same level of self defense ability as a full contact MMA style. It just takes longer. You are, however, fulfilling the other outcome far more efficiently.
If the only objective was to be able to fight, then I would train in Krav Maga. That is not the only objective though. I don't go just to learn how to fight.
Except I can fight. I can defend myself very efficiently.

If someone had been training in some kind of MMA for eleven years, they could probably do better, but that's neither here nor there. I've trained for eleven years in traditional martial arts, so I can defend myself quite well, and I feel that it's benefitted me in a dozen more intangible ways that MMA doesn't offer, or offers very poorly.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='06 November 2009 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1257523749' post='1997106']
Well, I'm not sure why you brought them up?

I was accused of not holding Catholic beliefs, because I see God in all creation.

I brought up St Francis, who saw God in all creation, and he of course, was Catholic.

Jim
[/quote]
St Francis saw the action of God in all Creation, not God in all Creation, there is a dfference, he was not a pantheist.

[JimR-OCDS]

Nihil Obstat


[quote]There are two desired outcomes from martial arts training: self defense and making yourself a better person.
My theory is that training in traditional martial arts can bring you to the same, or nearly the same level of self defense ability as a full contact MMA style. [/quote]

This was a theory by traditionalist MA people, but was proven bogus in the Mixed Martial Arts arena.

The only thing that happens is, as you get older, people consider you less of a threat, so you have the element of surprise should they try anything.

However, as young people respect people of age less in our culture, they could care less of what you know or don't know, they don't treat you with any sense of concern. Same holds true for women. When I grew up, hitting a girl was a mortal sin, and my father punished me the first time I hit a girl. Today however, boys and girls are treated equal, and there's little respect for the weaker sex. As a result, young thugs punching a female's lights out is not uncommon these days, unfortunately.




[quote]You are, however, fulfilling the other outcome far more efficiently.[/quote]

It doesn't take MA to become a better person, in fact, I've seen many bad results from those who trained in MA. OH yeah, thats right, its the bad instructor, not the student. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]



[quote]If the only objective was to be able to fight, then I would train in Krav Maga. That is not the only objective though. I don't go just to learn how to fight. Except I can fight. I can defend myself very efficiently.[/quote]

Yeah, against the average person, you can fight better., because most people don't generally get into real fights. Against a street fighter who does it for pleasure, you'll get your *** handed to you.
Trust me, I've seen it.

[quote]If someone had been training in some kind of MMA for eleven years, they could probably do better,[/quote]

Not to insult you but, if they had six months training in MMA, they'd do better. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/P.gif[/img]

[quote]but that's neither here nor there. I've trained for eleven years in traditional martial arts, so I can defend myself quite well, and I feel that it's benefitted me in a dozen more intangible ways that MMA doesn't offer, or offers very poorly.[/quote]

Good for you.

Jim

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='06 November 2009 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1257529136' post='1997159']
St Francis saw the action of God in all Creation, not God in all Creation, there is a dfference, he was not a pantheist.
[/quote]

Semantics.

When I see the work of another person, I see them in it, not their being, but their creative genius.

When I see creation, I see God in it, not His being, but His awesome power.

Jim