Assumption Of Mary

[RoseRed]

After Mary's Assumption, did she become divine and also remained human? Or just divine? Or just human? Any information would be considered welcome

[Cure of Ars]

Mary is not divine. What gave you this idea?

[phatcatholic]

jesus assumed (as in raised her up from above) into heaven both body and soul. she therefore exists in heaven w/ a glorified body (we too will exist w/ glorified bodies when Jesus comes again). but, she is not equal to God. she is a saint in heaven and Queen Mother to us all (Queen Mother b/c she is the mother of the King of Kings, Jesus Christ)

[phatcatholic]

rose,

does this answer ur questions? any other questions? for more info, see these articles:

[b]Assumption[/b]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12MUNIF.HTM"]Munificentissimus Deus: On the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Apostolic Constitution, Pope Pius XII, November 1, 1950[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp"]Immaculate Conception and Assumption[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/0506-96/Article6.html"]Mary's Assumption: Irrelevant and Irreverent?[/url]
--[url="http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/02006b.htm"]Feast of the Assumption[/url]
--[url="http://cuf.org/nonmemb/assumption.pdf"]Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary[/url]
--[url="http://www.udayton.edu/mary/questions/yq/yq14.html"]What is the Scriptural Support?[/url]
--[url="http://home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/marian8.html"]Mary's Assumption[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryc3c.htm"]The Assumption of Mary[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/AOFMARY.HTM"]The Assumption of Mary: A Belief Since Apostolic Times[/url]
--[url="http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/assump.html"]The Assumption of Our Lady[/url]
--[url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryc3b.htm"]History of the Doctrine of the Assumption[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=469"]Mary's Death and Bodily Assumption[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=2956"]The Assumption of Our Lady[/url]
--[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=475"]Her Assumption Befits the Mother of God[/url]

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Apotheoun]

In the Eastern Catholic tradition, which is also reflected in certain paragraphs of the [u]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/u] issued in 1992, the doctrine of salvation is called [i]theosis[/i], and it centers on the deification of man by grace. [cf., [u]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/u], nos. 460, 1129, 1265, 1812, 1988, 1999] This doctrine is fundamental to the teaching of the Church Fathers, who held that "God became man, so that man might become God." [St. Augustine, Sermo 13 de Tempore, from [u]The Office of Readings[/u], page 125, (Boston: St. Paul Editions, 1983)] Thus, the whole point of the incarnation of God is the deification of man.

As I indicated above, this teaching is reflected in the Catechism in several places, most especially in paragraph 1988 which reads as follows: "Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ's Passion by dying to sin, and in His Resurrection by being born to new life; we are members of His Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the Vine which is Himself: '[God] gave Himself to us through His Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, [i]we become communicants in the divine nature[/i]. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are [i]divinized[/i].'" [[u]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/u], no 1988] Deification by grace, i.e., becoming sons of God in the Only Begotten Son of God, is the whole point of the incarnation, life, passion, death, resurrection and ascension of our Lord.

Thus Mary, as the exemplar of the Church, having been assumed body and soul into Heaven, has experienced final [i]theosis[/i] and has been divinized by grace, and so she has been conformed perfectly to the likeness of her Divine Son, as one day all those who are saved shall be. This does not involve the destruction of her humanity, for she remains fully human, but she has been truly divinized by the grace of Almighty God.

This doctrine must not be thought of in a "Mormon" way, as if men become little gods with their own planets, but must be understood as a true deification of man and as an intimate communion of man with God in Christ. It must never be reduced to a mere metaphor, because by his incorporation into Christ, man is really made a partaker of the divine nature. [cf., 2nd Peter 1:4] This does not involve a change in man's essence, but entails an indwelling of God's Spirit within the human person, enlivening both body and soul to everlasting life. There is an analogy between the incarnation and deification, which is most clearly indicated in the prayer of the priest during the offertory at Mass when he mixes the water with the wine and says, "By the mystery of this water and wine, may we come to share in the divinity of Christ, who humbled Himself to share in our humanity." [[u]The Sacramentary[/u], (New York: Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1985), page 370.]

I will end with an extended quotation from the Pope's Apostolic Letter [u]Novo Millennio Ineunte[/u] in which he speaks of this powerful mystery: "Jesus is [i]the new man[/i] (cf. Eph 4:24; Col 3:10) who calls redeemed humanity to share in His divine life. The mystery of the Incarnation lays the foundations for an anthropology which, reaching beyond its own limitations and contradictions, moves towards God Himself, indeed towards the goal of [i]divinization[/i]. This occurs through the grafting of the redeemed on to Christ and their admission into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life. The Fathers have laid great stress on this soteriological dimension of the mystery of the Incarnation: it is only because the Son of God truly became man that man, in him and through him, can truly become a son of God." [Pope John Paul II, [u]Novo Millennio Ineunte[/u], no. 23] The process of deification does not involve the destruction of the distinction between God as the Creator and man as the created, for this distinction always remains, but by grace man is truly elevated into the very life and energy of the Trinity.

Edited June 24, 2004 by Apotheoun

[phatcatholic]

apotheoun,

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sorry, i guess i'm speechless b/c of what you just wrote!

i'm putting ur post in the "Salvation" entry b/c it is such an awesome testimony to the power of God's grace

pax christi,
phatcatholic

Edited June 24, 2004 by phatcatholic

[Guest JeffCR07]

yea, that was...whats the word...."good." Just a side note, have you ever read any of the stuff written by Maximus the Confessor? He did some really amazing analysis of the Eastern and Western Traditions and how they are truly One Catholic Church. I want to read a lot more of his stuff, but based on your background, I kind think you'd eat him up!

Anyways, thanks as always for the awesome post!

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[Cure of Ars]

Rosered, I apologize if my response was a little bit defensive. I’m in the trenches a lot with anti-Catholic and I hear the “you worship Mary” accusations so frequently that I have a bad knee jerk reaction. I should have asked the question in a softer tone with a little more charity….Sorry…Don’t be afraid to respond. I promise that I will control my knees.


Dust, for justice sake give Apotheoun a flag and get him in the Church militant or church scholar group or something. Phatcatholic quoting him and I just fill silly with the flaggy thingy and cross and Apotheoun just blowing in the wind with nothing. If you’re out of symbols he can have mine...Ok maybe not...but he should have one.

Edited June 28, 2004 by Cure of Ars

[MorphRC]

Where'd you get that Mary is divine?

The only one that would be divine is God.

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 28 2004, 05:01 AM'] Where'd you get that Mary is divine?

The only one that would be divine is God. [/quote]
Did you read Apotheoun's post?

[Apotheoun]

As I indicated in my previous post, the doctrine of [i]theosis[/i] is clearly taught by the prayer in the Roman Rite said by the priest when he pours a small amount of water into the chalice filled with wine at Mass, and says, "By the mystery of this water and wine may we come to share in the divinity of Christ, who humbled Himself to share in our humanity." [[u]The Sacramentary[/u], (New York: Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1985), page 370.] This ancient prayer is connected to the teaching of St. Cyprian of Carthage (ca. AD 253), who explained that the wine is a sign of the blood of Christ, while the water is a sign of the people of God. The mixture of these two elements in the one cup brings about the deification of humanity, because in mixing them together both the assimilation of man to Christ and the association of humanity with all that the Lord has accomplished through His redemptive incarnation is signified. [cf., [u]Ancient Christian Writers: The Letters of St. Cyprian[/u], vol. 3, Epistle 63, no. 13:1-2, (New York: Newman Press, 1986), vol. 46 in the series, page 105] Thus, the mixing of the water and wine during the liturgy symbolizes the indissoluble bond between Christ and His Body the Church, while also signifying the unbreakable bond in the Hypostatic Union between the Divine and human natures in the one person of Christ.

Let me once again emphasize that [i]theosis[/i] does not involve a type of transubstantiation of man's nature into the divine nature, because that would not bring about man's deification, but instead would involve his annihilation. [i]Theosis[/i] involves a true divinization ([i]theopoiesis[/i]) of man, in which the divine likenss ([i]theoeideis[/i]) lost by sin is restored, but this process is neither pantheistic nor monistic, and so man is not going to be absorbed into the divine nature; instead, he participates in the uncreated divine eneriges (grace) which flow out from the divine essence. Ultimately, [i]theosis[/i] concerns God's gift to man of a share in His own divine life and energy, it involves an elevation of man to a state of existence that exceeds his own natural capabilities, and so what Christ is by nature, man becomes by grace. The [u]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/u], quoting several ancient and medieval sources, says the following about [i]theosis[/i], "The Word became flesh to make us 'partakers of the divine nature.' 'For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.' 'For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.' 'The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in His divinity, assumed our nature, so that He, made man, might make men gods.'" [[u]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/u], no. 460] Finally, it should be noted that this doctrine is a part of the universal patrimony of the Church, and as such it has been taught by both the Greek and the Latin Fathers. This doctrine was only denied during the Reformation, because the Reformers distorted the meaning of justification and sanctification (i.e., deification), reducing them both to a mere legal fiction. The best way to combat the doctrinal errors of the Protestant Reformers is to assert fully and unequivocally the divinization of man by God's grace.

Edited June 28, 2004 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jun 24 2004, 01:35 PM'] yea, that was...whats the word...."good." Just a side note, have you ever read any of the stuff written by Maximus the Confessor? He did some really amazing analysis of the Eastern and Western Traditions and how they are truly One Catholic Church. I want to read a lot more of his stuff, but based on your background, I kind think you'd eat him up!

Anyways, thanks as always for the awesome post!

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff [/quote]
Yes, I have read many of St. Maximos' writings, and I even had the opportunity to quote from his [u]Four Centuries on Love[/u] in a paper I wrote this last semester for my Historical Foundations course, entitled, "God's Transcendence and Immanence and the Distinction between the Essence and Energies of God." St. Maximos's theology of theosis is quite developed, and you are correct in noting that he worked diligently in order to show that Eastern and Western theological differences are complimentary, and not contradictory.

[Guest JeffCR07]

awesome, any work by him in particular that you would recommend?

[MorphRC]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 29 2004, 01:44 AM'] Did you read Apotheoun's post? [/quote]
Did you read Roses post?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='RoseRed' date='Jun 22 2004, 07:15 PM']After Mary's Assumption, did she become divine and also remained human? Or just divine? Or just human? Any information would be considered welcome.[/quote]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 29 2004, 12:02 AM'][quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 29 2004, 01:44 AM']Did you read Apotheoun's post?[/quote]
Did you read Roses post?[/quote]
Actually, Mary has been divinized by grace, because through her participation in the beatific vision of the Trinity, she has become divine. This does not involve the destruction of her humanity; instead, it entails the elevation of her natural existence to a supernatural level. Through [i]final theosis[/i], Mary has become a partaker of the divine nature. [cf., 2nd Peter 1:4] She has been perfectly configured to the likeness of her divine Son, and so by grace she has become what He is by nature. This is the teaching of the Church Fathers, who held that man truly becomes God, not through a change or conversion of human nature into the divine nature, but through the infusion of God's uncreated energies (i.e., grace) into man's body and soul, so that man becomes a real participant in the life and glory of the Trinity.

In reference to the doctrine of [i]theosis[/i], two things must be borne in mind: (1) God is uncreated, while man is and remains created even after being deified, and so the difference between the Creator and the creature remains; and (2) God is the Deifier, while man is the deified, and so man is completely dependent upon the grace of God for his deification, and as a consequence theosis is a gift of God and not something that man can cause independently of sanctifying (i.e., deifying) grace. [cf., [u]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/u], no. 1999]

It follows from what has been said already, that divinized man is totally dependent upon God for this supernatural gift, and so even after the process of [i]theosis[/i] is complete: God is All-powerful, man is not; God is All-knowing, man is not; God is Creator, man is created; God is Redeemer, man is redeemed; God is Sanctifier, man is sanctified; and God is Deifier, while man is deified. Man's divinization does not alter his human nature in itself, and so he remains fully human even after being deified; but he truly, and not merely in appearance, participates in the divine nature, that is, in the divine life and glory through the uncreated energies of God (i.e., grace). Man's mortal life is infused with God's immortal life, and he is vivified by God's Spirit unto eternal life. Clearly, this is something that man cannot naturally possess, but through the incarnation and the Paschal Mystery of our Lord Jesus Christ, this wondrous gift is bestowed by God upon man. This is the whole point of the incarnation, because as I mentioned before, "God became man, so that man might become God." [St. Augustine, Sermo 13 de Tempore, from [u]The Office of Readings[/u], page 125, (Boston: St. Paul Editions, 1983)] It is important to note that when St. Augustine said this, he was not saying anything new, because St. Athanasius, the Cappadocians, St. Irenaeus, and many other Church Fathers had already said the same thing.

Catholicism, unlike Protestantism, has always held that salvation is not a mere imputation of a righteousness that is foreign and external to man; instead, as a matter of divine and catholic faith, the Church has always held that the infusion of grace into man, makes man a real participant in God's Triune life. Thus, it is true to say that Mary is divine, because she has been divinized by God, but this does not mean that she is divine by nature; instead, she is divine by the unmerited gift of God's grace.

Edited June 29, 2004 by Apotheoun