I'm Sorry, Robin Williams, Suicide Is Selfish

[4588686]

All right. You know what? I wasn't going to post anything, other than the one thing I did, mostly because I am triggering all over the beaver dam place right now, and I pray to God my father doesn't stumble onto Phatmass to find I posted, because he's still concerned for my well being, which , no poo, he should be.

 

Blazingstar. I am going to let you, and everyone on this forum in on a little secret.

 

I tried to kill myself last month.

 

I drove to the bridge and started to climb it Eventually police were called and I was taken to the hospital and evaluated. This all came after a series of things, one after another, piling up on top of me. Let me tell you about that morning. How do you think it went? Did I wake up one morning and say to myself, "golly gee, a swim in the river sounds amesome right about now"? Did I do what I did because I wanted to spite people?

 

No. To both. I wasn't thinking. Like, at all. My mind was a fog. I couldn't even hear myself think. I collapsed on the floor, crying hysterically, and called the suicide hotline. Nothing they said even made sense to me. Why? Because, my brain had shut off. Everything, including pain and warning sensors, shut off. 

 

I threw my phone at the wall, got in my car, parked in a drugstore parking lot, and just walked to the bridge. Everything was a fog. I wanted the pain to stop. I didn't even want to die. I just. wanted. it. to. stop. No logic could pierce through me. No rational ideas could get to me. Not even my own family could get through to me. 

 

In a way...I was already dead.

 

Then I was taken away to the hospital and sat in a room for hours on end. It wasn't until later in the day that my brain "woke up" and realized, oh croutons, I tried to kill myself. Up until that point, I probably would have tried it again. 

 

My point is...you cannot always bring logic into this. It's easy to call it selfish; but honestly, how can it be a selfish choice when we are incapable of even making simple decisions such as getting up in the morning? It's a choice in the same light as an allergic reaction is a choice. It's the result of a disease. No, no, don't hear me wrong; in no way am I glamorizing suicide. It's tragic, and I am saddened by this recent news of Robin Williams passing. Quite frankly, though, by the time he got to the point of hanging himself, he probably couldn't hear himself think. He lost his fight with this sickness. That calls for compassion. Those of us with depression and bipolar disorder are haunted; memories of things that happened three years ago will come back to us. You can say "it's distorted" until you are blue in the face, but again; depression isn't logical. It's just not. 

 

So I am going to share with you all something that Nash, a DJ on Radio Dead Air (look it up) said. This is what someone with depression needs to hear.

 

It's not your fault. 

 

It's not. This isn't you.

 

You aren't your illness.

 

You are a good, special, loving, kind, intelligent person.

 

And yes, get them help. It's gonna smell of elderberries, because the battle to getting better smells of elderberries. But at the end of the day...this sickness I have, you have...

 

It's no more your fault than having cancer is a cancer patient's fault.

 

Depression is not your fault. Bipolar disorder is not your fault.

 

 

Thank you so much for sharing this, Selah.  

[blazeingstar]

Maybe now is when you should just stop.  

 

Sorry.  No. 

[4588686]

Sorry.  No. 

 

 

Alright.  Here's something you might want to consider.  When a lot of people of diverse backgrounds and points of view are all noting that you are making an arse of yourself then that is often a sign that you are wrong.  

 

But keep on truckin'

[blazeingstar]

Alright.  Here's something you might want to consider.  When a lot of people of diverse backgrounds and points of view are all noting that you are making an arse of yourself then that is often a sign that you are wrong.  

 

But keep on truckin'

 

Not everyone said I was wrong.  You said I was wrong.  Some people disagreed on how I stated things, but agreed with the sentament.

 

You...and another poster with her own issues... have taken it upon yourself to name call and belittle me for the sake of "justice."

 

That's it.

 

Perhaps I could of worded things a bit better, but my main point goes unchanged.  I do not like the articles on the interwebs being posted about Robin Williams, and I do think it is a dangerous, foolish move to keep point out how he did the right thing for him and it wasn't bad.  It is bad, for everyone, including him.  God may see that his culpability is nil, others may not be so fortunate.

[4LoveofJMJ]

Selah I am so sorry that you had to experience that. You hit the bullseye on the target that we were all trying to aim at. That no one who commits suicide it in their right mind.

 

I think that I understand what you are trying to get at Balzingstar. Anyone who has experienced the pain of loosing someone by suicide will think of it as a selfish act. They are taking out all of their pain and anger out on the person who caused it. Yet in their pain and anger, they forget how much the person must have been driven mad by the pain to kill themselves. They were just seeking relief from the pain that was blinding them from everything else.

 

Instead of calling anyone who is suicidal selfish, try putting yourself in their shoes first.

 

 

[blazeingstar]

Selah I am so sorry that you had to experience that. You hit the bullseye on the target that we were all trying to aim at. That no one who commits suicide it in their right mind.

 

I think that I understand what you are trying to get at Balzingstar. Anyone who has experienced the pain of loosing someone by suicide will think of it as a selfish act. They are taking out all of their pain and anger out on the person who caused it. Yet in their pain and anger, they forget how much the person must have been driven mad by the pain to kill themselves. They were just seeking relief from the pain that was blinding them from everything else.

 

Instead of calling anyone who is suicidal selfish, try putting yourself in their shoes first.

 

nope

[4588686]

 

Perhaps I could of worded things a bit better, but my main point goes unchanged.  I do not like the articles on the interwebs being posted about Robin Williams, and I do think it is a dangerous, foolish move to keep point out how he did the right thing for him and it wasn't bad.  It is bad, for everyone, including him.  God may see that his culpability is nil, others may not be so fortunate.

 

 

Don't think anyone here is taking issue with that part of your post.  It's the calling somebody suffering from severe depression who commits suicide selfish that people take issue with.  

[blazeingstar]

Don't think anyone here is taking issue with that part of your post.  It's the calling somebody suffering from severe depression who commits suicide selfish that people take issue with.  

 

Given the contagious nature of suicide, I disagree.  And that's that.

[Lilllabettt]

One problem I think people are having is overgeneralizing. Suicides are as different as the people who commit them.

 

Suicide requires overriding our self-preservation mechanisms. This is the most basic of all human instinct. The force required is formidable. I think it is doubtful that many people under that kind of pressure are really capable of making a free choice.That said, I know people who have left notes indicating that they are killing themselves for spite.

 

Many, many people commit suicide as a spur of the moment decision - as a result of an abrupt slip in processing like what Selah describes.Other people plan it well in advance; their suicide being a product of (what seems to them) a carefully considered "rational" deliberation.

 

I get what the OP's objection is to all the sympathy and attention Robin Williams is getting. Isolated, alienated people, also members of the depressed and suicidal club, long for that kind of acknowledgment. It is a basic human need, they have been starved of it, and now they see someone getting it in abundance. It really can give vulnerable people a shove.

 

During my freshman year someone jumped out of a window in my dorm. We had a vigil. Cue another person jumping out of a dorm. We had a vigil. Cue another and another. The University refused to allow vigils after that, because an expert team they brought in said they contributed to the development of a suicide cluster. 

 

Suicide is the ultimate defeat. You don't need a religious perspective to understand that. But I have seen things said about Robin Williams ("genie, now you are free") that are well meaning but are not productive from a public health perspective. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[4LoveofJMJ]

 

I find that his sucide is being glorified in a way in which I cannot remember anyone's ever.  I do feel like by applying all those things to it, there will be huge spikes in the numbers in the days and weeks to come.

 

Except those people won't be well know.

 

I think the reason why people are paying so much attention to him is that he was a well known and much beloved actor whose entire career was based on making people smile and laugh. It is such a shock that someone who could bring so much joy to the world be so depressed as to do this to himself. He touched so many lives that we can not help but express our sorrow for this loss.

 

As to the articles that you say glorify his suicide, I am afraid I have not seen any.

[Credo in Deum]

nope

 

 

Given the contagious nature of suicide, I disagree.  And that's that.

 

 

Since a debate cannot exist with attitudes like this, can we just close this thread for the sake of charity?

 

I do not see this going anywhere. 

[CatherineM]

Blaze- you are going through the same assault I went through when I called Pope Benedict a quitter and said I was disgusted. You are entitled to your opinion even if no one agrees with you.

You are right about how suicides can be contagious. That's not opinion, that's documented. There will be people who kill themselves because of Williams' death. Some will give up the fight. Some will see the outpouring of grief for him and want that for themselves. Some will think that if he couldn't fight it, what hope do I have?

I pray for his family. They will not only be full of grief, but guilt that they didn't prevent it. I pray for his soul. Mostly I pray that this isn't turned into a rallying call for those who want to legalize suicide for the mentally ill.

Selah- I'm really glad you survived your dark night.

[CrossCuT]

You don't like me, block me.  Crosscut said I wasn't entitled to my opinion and called it disgusting.  She's entitled to say she disagrees, but not to say I can't have my own feelings on the matter.

 

Again, feel free to block me, if you find me offensive.  Otherwise, the think I said about socks and rocks goes for you, too.

 

[mod]Personal attack. Warning issued. -dUSt[/mod] . I never said you dont have a right to an opinion, I just said that your opinion smells of elderberries and you should feel bad.

[Aloysius]

I really think these kinds of attempts at shaming the person who committed suicide actually contributes to the contagion factor that you think you're trying to mitigate.  You start going on and on about how selfish Robin Williams was, and then someone who's been having suicidal thoughts starts to feel those as attacks on themselves... thinking yeah, I'm just some selfish loser for having these thoughts, what's wrong with me, and the spiral of self loathing gets bigger and darker and even more inescapable... if you've ever been in that deep dark spiral of despair, you know just how pernicious it is, just how much deeper down you sink like you're trying to fight your way out of quicksand every time a thought comes up wherein you blame yourself for your despair.  that "what's wrong with me?" thought that just pushes the sands in tighter and pulls you down further.  that "why am I so self-absorbed, come on, so many people have it so much worse than I do" thought, it eats away at your will to keep your head above the ground. the more you hate your depression and your suicidal thoughts, the more you hate yourself for having them, and the spiral of despair sinks its clutches into you.

 

oh how little you know about depression if you think announcing how selfish suicide is will do anything but push people further towards it.  I really believe that this kind of talk that emerges around suicides has a significant effect on increasing that contagion factor.

 

Outpourings of love and grief and affirmations of how much everyone is loved and would be so missed, with a firm expression of grief and understanding at how that depression had victimized the person it got, how that person was valuable and that their depression was not their fault, those are the kinds of things that should be shown when there is a suicide.  Shaming of the person who died does nothing but reaffirm the shame and guilt of those who struggle with these feelings, leading them down darker paths... all we can do is shine the light, let people know that the road they're on is not their fault.

 

Here's what we should say to Mr. Williams now... because what we say to and about Mr. Williams, we say to and about all those who suffer from depression (language warning, but under the circumstances I say we should leave it up) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtkST5-ZFHw

[Credo in Deum]