Why Does The Church Oppose Magic And What Counts As Magic?

[The Hierophant]

This is a puzzling question to me:  why does the Church oppose magic?

 

Now there is some magic that is obviously inappropriate, such as magic intending to harm, or goetic magic, which evokes demons to serve the magician. However, much of what falls under magic deliberately calls upon God and angels, differing little, as far as I can tell, from Our Fathers and Prayers to St Michael except in the extent of ritualization.  The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram is a good example of this:  though it is practiced by many heathens, the essence of it Jewish/Christian.

 

Many years ago, I practiced ceremonial magic; I haven't practiced in some time, certainly not since converting. However, it is hard for me to understand the rationale for not practicing it.  If the danger is that calling upon God and angels in these rituals really invites dark powers, how do Catholic prayers not do the same thing?  I'm honestly perplexed.

 

Moving on to the second question:  what counts as magic?  Suppose we found out scientifically that human beings have precognitive powers and that this can be harnessed through training.  Would such training count as magic?  It wouldn't involve the evocation of spiritual beings; it would be more akin to weight lifting, albeit for the mind.  It's hard for me to imagine that such a thing would be morally illicit.

[truthfinder]

Someone should be able to give you a thorough answer. But my answer would be that the Devil is the Deceiver and often imitates what is good to win people to his own. 

[Nihil Obstat]

The concept of 'good' magic is in reality a great deception because all magic and witchcraft is inherently demonic.

[The Hierophant]

That might be right. Think about it this way:  how can you tell whether something is a magic rite or a prayer?

[Nihil Obstat]

Prayer asks in a spirit of humility for intercession. It never presumes to command or instruct.

[The Hierophant]

So suppose that someone does a ritual in which he asks God and some angels to intercede on his behalf.  He follows a very rigid program, involving saying specific words, making specific gestures, etc, and he expects that this will be helpful in some way that merely asking for help won't be.  He doesn't think that he is commanding or instructing God or the angels, just that somehow doing these things will make God or the angels more likely to intercede.

 

Now we might think that's what makes it magic - that the person who is asking God and angels thinks that doing these gestures and saying these words add something to simply asking God or the angels earnestly.  But then consider this:  what about the Rosary, or the Chaplet of Divine Mercy?  These practices are often thought to be effective in ways that merely asking God would not be.  So what is the difference there? Is it because these were revealed as good practice, or because they elevate the mind?  I suspect it is something like the latter.

 

For the record, I do not think anyone should practice magic. After I was doing it, family members, including, but not originally, myself, began seeing "shadow people" walking around the house, as well as other, stronger manifestations that I won't go into involving phones and a moving object.  It's not something I would trust.  It's not hard for me to see that magic is bad, it's just hard for me to see what makes it bad, that's all.

[truthfinder]

One definition of religion would be "correct worship." Now of days this tends to get peoples' hackles up, but I still think there's something to it. I guess it the sentiments expressed in the prayers that define what is right or not.  

 

He follows a very rigid program, involving saying specific words, making specific gestures,

In many ways, this can describe the Mass - and we clearly have an understanding that this is not magic.  This is starting to reach beyond my depth...

[HisChildForever]

Prayer asks in a spirit of humility for intercession. It never presumes to command or instruct.

 

This is the best explanation one can give, I think.

 

Magic seeks to manipulate the environment, and/or bargain with whatever deity the person is calling on. The latter can be manipulation too, both parties using the other for some kind of gain, regardless if the gain is selfish or will harm some third party. As Christians, we commune with a loving deity and express that all we can do is try to be better and more loving. We are sinless and finite and acknowledge that we're entirely at His mercy...we can't "use" God and we don't even want to try. And God loves us so much that He doesn't want to use us. Look at the Blessed Virgin, he asked her to carry Christ, He didn't force her. To Christians, the relationship between God and man is authentic and loving, not self-serving and manipulative.

[beatitude]

But then consider this:  what about the Rosary, or the Chaplet of Divine Mercy?  These practices are often thought to be effective in ways that merely asking God would not be.  So what is the difference there? Is it because these were revealed as good practice, or because they elevate the mind?  I suspect it is something like the latter.

 

It is good to pray the rosary, but I wouldn't say it is in any way 'better' than other forms of prayer. St Teresa of Avila described a poor and uneducated woman whose sole prayer was the Our Father - and St Teresa saw that this woman was very close to God. Some people have a very great devotion to the rosary, others to the Sacred Heart, some recite litanies and other prefer silent contemplation - we can't say that any of these things are objectively better in and of themselves. Prayer is a thirst for God. Each of us is different and so each of us will pray differently.

[mortify ii]

Magick can be used in a wider sense to include any ritual, but generally speaking we use the narrow sense of a ritual employing a demonic force. I know at times magick rituals claim to utilize angels, as Aleister Crowley claimed to have gone in contact with his angel, but as we know a fallen angel can present themselves as an angel of light and so this type of magick also employs demonic forces albeit under the guise of light.

 

If the topic interests you Id recommend Meditations on the Tarot, which was written by an Catholic convert and hermeticist

[mortify ii]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1_WF-axSo[/youtube]

[ChristianGirlForever]

I think this is a great question in this day and age. I have never practiced witchcraft, nor do I ever intend to. I know it to be inherently anti-Christian. Witchcraft, even when practiced with good intentions, is always a form of arrogance. The witch believes she can, with her special powers and leverage, enact a change. Christianity is all about humility---look at Christ and his Most Pure and Blessed Mother.

When we pray, whether it be rote prayers on a rosary or Chotki or from a prayer book, we are humbly asking for help, confessing ourselves to be poor sinners, incapable of accomplishing the desired end to our prayer on our own. We even ask the saints to pray to God on our behalf, trusting God will hear the prayer of those so much holier than we.

None of this is present in witchcraft, which is the stuff of demons, who are the opposite of good and which epitomize arrogance.

I'm glad to see that you know it is evil, so there is no need to convince you of that.

I just remembered an article I read as a teenager. A girl from a devout Christian household had gotten into Wicca. She said she had grown quite good at it. One night she was practicing magic, when her bedroom became filled with terrifying demons. She rebuked them with every spell she knew, but the words made no difference to the creatures of hell. Suddenly, out of nowhere, she found herself crying out in a loud voice for Jesus to send them away. Instantly they were gone, and there was piece. Needless to say, she went back to the faith of her childhood and left Wicca behind for good.

Perhaps you can see the difference in her Wiccan spells to get rid of the demons and her heartfelt and humble prayer to Jesus to make them leave.

Hope this helps! By the way, great for you that you left behind magic for Christ. That's truly wonderful. :-)

Prayers,

Nina

[oremus1]

That might be right. Think about it this way:  how can you tell whether something is a magic rite or a prayer?

 

 

is it to Jesus or God or a saint or Our Lady?

 

if not, dont.

 

the reason is beause those things can be really dangerous. even if they are helpful at first, giving you knowledge or special tings. when you try to move away and leave them behind, you will sometimes expereince very weird or bad stuff happening and will need a priest to sort it out. there was a vatican document about demonology saying he who does not believe in satan does not have fullness of faith. bearing in mind most novus ordo priests dont believe in exorcism or the devil or anything. they will not help uyou. the novus ordo does not even have exorcised salt or exorcised water (not just blessed).

 

seriously i know people who have been involved in all that and even in satanism. they had stuff flying off the walls, taps goin on and off in their house wiht people there. think a less extereme version of paranormal activity. one guy even woke up with scrateches on his chest, really weird ones. i only know one priest who sorts out those problems. the novus ordo diocsean exorcists are too scared.

 

dont do it man dont do it.

 

oh and if you do get into a problem messing with all that, the St Michael the Archangel prayer is good as is the divine mercy chaplet or litany of the precious blood. there is also a manual of minor exorcism that any priest can do - different to major exorcism and doesnt need a bishop permission.

[oremus1]

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3095.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3092.htm

 

this might help explain

[oremus1]

So suppose that someone does a ritual in which he asks God and some angels to intercede on his behalf.  He follows a very rigid program, involving saying specific words, making specific gestures, etc, and he expects that this will be helpful in some way that merely asking for help won't be.  He doesn't think that he is commanding or instructing God or the angels, just that somehow doing these things will make God or the angels more likely to intercede.

 

Now we might think that's what makes it magic - that the person who is asking God and angels thinks that doing these gestures and saying these words add something to simply asking God or the angels earnestly.  But then consider this:  what about the Rosary, or the Chaplet of Divine Mercy?  These practices are often thought to be effective in ways that merely asking God would not be.  So what is the difference there? Is it because these were revealed as good practice, or because they elevate the mind?  I suspect it is something like the latter.

 

For the record, I do not think anyone should practice magic. After I was doing it, family members, including, but not originally, myself, began seeing "shadow people" walking around the house, as well as other, stronger manifestations that I won't go into involving phones and a moving object.  It's not something I would trust.  It's not hard for me to see that magic is bad, it's just hard for me to see what makes it bad, that's all.

 

 

what ritual? a novena? thats fine.

 

please please dont do those things. it is so dangerous. if you need something turn it to Jesus only. not any angels (other than the three recgnised ones).

 

also. St Benedict medal blessed with special St Benedict medal blessing (ask an FSSP priest or traditional priest only) will protect against those things. it has special exorcising properties http://www.fisheaters.com/stbenedictmedal.html