Dicernment Woes...

[Annie12]

I was reflecting on my discernment and I become annoyed. It's not that I don't trust God, but, its that nothing is working out. I have been discerning since I was 16. I'm now almost 21. It seems like in that amount of time, I have made no progress in realizing my vocation. It seems like one minuet I am aspiring to be a sister and the next I'm aspiring to be a mother.  I don't expect discernment to be a piece of cake but I would have at least thought when I was 16 that I would have made some headway by now. Nope. The only answer I can come up with is that I don't have an answer. I am discouraged and annoyed because I don't know what my heart wants. I thought I wanted to be a religious sister until a year ago when I graduated High School. Now, I feel draw to marriage more than I ever have in the past. The strange thing is that this has happened at the most spiritually productive point in my life! I don't understand. I would love to have a family but being a religious sister seems so precious! Another part of me fears that I wouldn't reach sanctity if I was married because of the distractions in the world. I would really appreciate some help here! Thank you!

[EmilyAnn]

You obviously have a great understanding and appreciation for the religious life, but perhaps you need to understand the sacrament of marriage more. A religious vocation is a great and precious thing but so is a vocation to marriage. God calls us to the life that will best serve Him and lead us to sanctity - whether than be marriage or a religious vocation. 

 

Casti Connubii

Arcanum

 

CCC, section on the Sacrament of Matrimony

 

[OnlySunshine]

It's hard not to feel this way, isn't it?  I've been discerning since I was 24.  I'm 29 going on 30 in 4 months.  I was discerning religious life until recently and now I'm discerning Consecrated Virginity.  Sometimes, I feel like I should have started my lifelong vocation by now but that's not helpful thinking at all.  I remember a conversation I had with my friend who is now a novice with her order.  Before she entered, she told me that should be time to make the leap.  She's 3 years younger.  I felt like, "Why is it her turn and not mine?  What am I missing?"  But this is putting God in a box.  If everyone found out their vocation at the same time, it would be too generic and have no excitement.  God calls people at different times.  Remember the thread where we mentioned that being a spiritual mother is crucial to being a Sister?  It's natural to feel this way.  The thing you have to figure out is if God wants you to be a spiritual mother or a biological mother.  It may take a month.  It may take years (don't shoot me!).  It all depends on when God chooses to reveal His will to you.  Until that time, keep praying that you keep your heart open to whatever He may ask of you.  You may not like it (or you may).  But whatever He tells you will lead you to peace.  My prayers are with you!  :pray:

[Oremoose]

I Fell like I need to say something here I don't know what to say...

 

If you get the slightest enticement to do something and it is not sinful do it. Dedicate it to God and do it. If you are not feeling any sort of extra calling or alike move on. God calls when he needs you to respond all we need to do is stay open to hear him.

 

Sanctity is merely the title we give to those who won the majority of the day to day struggle. So be it religious, married, hermit, or intercity dog walker. The Vocation is what you live sanctity is how you live it. 

[Gabriela]

I was reflecting on my discernment and I become annoyed. It's not that I don't trust God, but, its that nothing is working out. I have been discerning since I was 16. I'm now almost 21. It seems like in that amount of time, I have made no progress in realizing my vocation. It seems like one minuet I am aspiring to be a sister and the next I'm aspiring to be a mother.  I don't expect discernment to be a piece of cake but I would have at least thought when I was 16 that I would have made some headway by now. Nope. The only answer I can come up with is that I don't have an answer. I am discouraged and annoyed because I don't know what my heart wants. I thought I wanted to be a religious sister until a year ago when I graduated High School. Now, I feel draw to marriage more than I ever have in the past. The strange thing is that this has happened at the most spiritually productive point in my life! I don't understand. I would love to have a family but being a religious sister seems so precious! Another part of me fears that I wouldn't reach sanctity if I was married because of the distractions in the world. I would really appreciate some help here! Thank you!

 

When I was interviewing all those sisters for my thesis, one of them said, "Don't think too much. You can think to dust!"

 

Sounds like you're trying hard to "figure it out". Have you tried stopping trying?

 

I just got two offers of admission to PhD programs. Now, which one should I take? I don't know. I went to Adoration yesterday and tried not to think about it. I tried to just sit there with Him. And then a word came to my mind, "Notdeciding". No, that is not a typo. The word was not "not deciding" or "not-deciding". It was "Notdeciding".

 

Now, this might sound ridiculous, but I thought that was hilarious. And really, really kind of Him. I almost laughed out loud in Adoration as soon as I realized what He was doing: giving me a word for that thing I've been trying to do. I'm a really language-oriented person (BA in Modern Languages, MA in Communication, speak 3 foreign languages, write in my free time, etc.). But I had no word for what I heard about from so many sisters. There was only: "don't think too much" and "let it go and just be where you are and see what happens" and "just relax and wait on Him". All of that is "negative" stuff. It's doing nothing. It's passive. It's emptiness. How do you not do, actively?

 

"Notdeciding", that's how. It's like a place I actively go to and just hang out. It's a positive action, not a negative abstention. How hard is it not to think of the white elephant when they tell you not to? It's impossible. The second they tell you not to think of it, it pops into your mind. Try not thinking about your discernment—suddenly you can't stop thinking about it. But do something positive, something active—go to Notdeciding—and you're not trying not to; you're just hanging out in Notdeciding, having fun, relaxing, enjoying your time. You're not even waiting. You're just chillin' in Notdeciding.

 

Now, of course, you know that ultimately God is going to come fetch you out of Notdeciding at some point or another. But you have no idea when, or where to, and it doesn't matter. Because when you're in Notdeciding, life is great.

 

Now that I have a positive, active word for that place, it is so much easier for me to kick back, relax, and just see what comes. Anytime I start to try to "figure it out" for myself, I just go to Notdeciding.

 

Does anyone in here have any idea what I am talking about?

Edited March 23, 2013 by curiousing

[maximillion]

Oh yes yes yes, curiousing, I know exactly what you are on about and I think it is wonderful and good advice....this notdoing place is the start of contemplation, and in order to discern His Will with any degree of accuracy, one has to get to that place, IMO. There is an active way of being that has its essence in notdoing, notdeciding, notthinking......

 

Let go, and let God..............

[Annie12]

It may be true that I am unintentionally throwing marraige under the bus but I was just thinking of a few things.

1.Religious Life is a higher vocation.

2. This quote from St. Faustina's Diary:

In the evening, I just about got into bed, and I fell asleep immediately. Though I fell asleep quickly, I was awakened even more quickly. A little child came and woke me up. The child seemed about a year old, and I was surprised it could speak so well, as children of that age either do not speak or speak very indistinctly. The child was beautiful beyond words and resembled the Child Jesus, and he said to me, Look at the sky. And when I looked at the sky I saw the stars and the moon shining. Then the child asked me, Do you see this moon and these stars? When I said yes, he spoke these words to me, These stars are the souls of faithful Christians,
and the moon is the souls of religious. Do you see how great the difference is between the light of the moon and the light of the stars? Such is the difference in heaven between the soul of a religious and the soul of a faithful Christian. And he went on to say that, True greatness is in loving God and in humility (Diary, 424).

 

Also just in general, a majority of known saints have been Religious.

I do realize it's not impossible to become a saint through marriage. But it seems much harder given the nature of the life.

Is this a fair analysis? What do you think?

Edited March 23, 2013 by Annie12

[maximillion]

Yes, it's a fair analysis, but it may not be what He wants for your life.....................

 

All those in heaven are saints.....

Maybe He has decided to get you heaven first and let the folks on earth make whatever decision about the method they want to make. 

Edited March 23, 2013 by maximillion

[Antigonos]

A few points, if I may:

 

1] A scientist, or researcher, develops a theory, and goes out to prove it, using the standard methods acceptable to science.  The more data he collects, the more experiments he does, he begins to realize that it's  not the data which is in question but that his theory is flawed, even if it seemed entirely logical at the outset.  He's confronted with two choices: either to revise, or discard, his initial theory, or to try to make the facts fit the theory by interpreting them in non-standard ways.  The former choice may be immensely distressing, especially if he really loved his theory, the latter choice is intellectually and probably morally dishonest.

 

I think discernment can be similar.  A person wants, really wants, to become a religious.  But the longer he or she is in discernment, the more obvious it becomes that another way of life beckons.  Two choices: adapt, or try to force oneself into a groove which isn't a good fit.

 

2] I don't think one can plan to be a saint; one simply "is" or "is not".  I'm willing to bet that anyone applying to a religious order because of a stated desire "to be a saint" would be looked on with a degree of amusement, if not suspicion, by others who are simply dedicating themselves to striving toward a higher degree of spirituality, but letting God be the arbiter of whether they succeed or not. As for the assertion that most saints have been religious, I dispute that.  Throughout history there have been huge numbers of saintly individuals who never came to the notice of the folks who give out the official status of sainthood, and these have been both in and out of religious organizations.  Indeed, I believe that many saints would be surprised and rather embarrassed to be called saintly.  And this goes for all religions.

 

3] The concept that marriage is not as high a calling as religious life is a concept very peculiar to Catholicism, and I think it is very mistaken.  What can be a higher calling than raising a family of devout Catholics who perpetuate the Church?  Believe me, being a parent is not only a full-time profession, it is a very difficult one, and it never ends.  Living IN the world and yet maintaining a high level of spiritual consciousness is much harder than when one's entire lifestyle is based on a Holy Rule and in partial or complete enclosure where everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time, and worldly distractions are reduced to a minimum or non-existent.

 

4] IMO, in a very real sense, discernment is an aspect of religious life itself.  Religious life doesn't begin when the convent gates close behind one -- after all, one is striving to perfect oneself even as one only contemplates formally becoming a religious.  Are there any discerners out there who are living riotous, hedonistic lives totally opposed to the values of the Church?  I doubt it.  Oh yes, there are precedents like St. Augustine, but even he wasn't going to orgies once he underwent spiritual conversion.  I've never seen anyone posting on "bucket list" threads that she wants to drop acid and sleep around now because when she enters the convent she won't be able to do that any more.

 

I don't know what ultimately you will see as the best course of your life but I do know that thinking there is some guilt attached to thinking about options other than formal religious life is not a good idea.  It's a bit like a situation where someone believes intensely that she "ought" to be a lawyer,  despite knowing deep inside that it doesn't really suit her tastes and abilities, because at one time she did think it was the right profession and everyone she looked up to assured her it was the "best" profession, even though she's always been somewhat drawn to medicine or nursing, or just about any other profession you could name [and I include being a homemaker in this].  I'm old enough that when I was accepted to nursing school, friends of my mother "commiserated" with her: "But A. could be a doctor!" [this was back in the first enthusiasms of the feminist movement of the 60s]  Being "just a nurse" was "not recognizing my full potential".  But nursing is NOT diluted doctoring, and I never wanted to be a doctor; I WANTED to be a nurse.

 

Give it time, Annie12!

[Annie12]

On being a saint, do you think that St Therese' analogy of everyone having a certain sized cup is correct? I believe she said that our allowance for grace depended on the size of our spiritual cup and that as one does good the up can increase. (if I am mistaken please correct me). Now, is it possible for a married person to have the same size cup (per say) as a consecrated religious? Will the beatific vision be the same? I am just curious. I am not basing my discernment off of this so don't worry!

[Maggyie]

Remember the thread where we mentioned that being a spiritual mother is crucial to being a Sister?  It's natural to feel this way.  The thing you have to figure out is if God wants you to be a spiritual mother or a biological mother. 

 

while I know what you are saying, I think this simplifies the issue a teensy bit - some religious are biological mothers (prior to entrance) and many wives are spiritual mothers. You can be both at the same time!

 

Annie it seems when you go on a retreat you are very energized about having a religious vocation, but then after you cool off you are back to thinking about marriage. From a complete stranger's perspective it seems you very much wish to be called to religious life. Yes, it is the higher vocation.  But when St. Therese talks about the cups, the 'size' of the cup so to speak is based on the sanctity the soul reached, not just what vocation the soul was in.

[Pax_et bonum]

In lauding the religious life, it should not be done at the expense of the dignity of the married vocation. Objectively, it can be said, as the Church and saints have said, that priesthood and religious life are higher than marriage, but it doesn't seem to mean that marriage is lesser. Priesthood/religious life is on a supernatural plane while marriage is on the natural plane. They're different (I'm not good at math, but I don't think it's mathematically possible to compare things on different planes though I could just be making that up), and subjectively, the vocation that is highest is the one to which God is calling an individual. As far as the stars vs moon, do you aspire to be the brightest of them all or to be the brightest you can be? If it's the first, that would be pride. It makes me think of the line in the litany of humility: "That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should."

 

As far as sainthood, I think you may be concentrating too much on the saints canonized by the Church. We're all called to sainthood, and though many don't quite get there until they go through purgatory, many do become saints in their earthly lives in every vocation who aren't recognized by the Church through canonization. Canonization of saints is for us; it doesn't change the status of the person in heaven. Maybe you'd like to get to know the parents of St. Therese, Bl. Louis and Zelie Martin, for saints who were married and who had both initially wanted to enter religious life.

 

I've been struggling (not in a bad way) with some questions relating to discernment and my vocation recently. Sometimes I test my vocation by saying that I will not enter religious life and go from there imagining other possibilities. However, I've always come back to a deep desire to consecrate my self to God through a life of prayer and penance in community. Then the question comes up if it's just my stubbornness and attachment or if it's from God. If you keep coming back to find a desire for religious life or for married life, then look and see how deep it goes. Is it ingrained in your inmost being? I can't answer that question yet; it's probably the question at the center of discernment.

 

Doing the will of God is not just focused on our permanent vocation. Following God's will is a daily activity, a moment by moment activity really. If we are seeking His will in each moment of our day, then it will slowly help point the way to our vocation whether that's to religious life, married life, or consecrated/lay single person. Our vocations start now.

[Annie12]

Thank you Pax_et Bonum! That was very well put. It makes more sense now! haha!

[Annie12]

Hey everyone,

Recent chain of events lead me to think that God may have marriage in store for me in the future. I think I have gotten lost in the beauty of a call to religious life that I didn't even stop to think that my heart (as of now) feels no peace envisioning myself in religious life. However, I think I would make a great mom! I deeply appreciate all prayers! Thank you everyone! Pax!

[Eowyn]

Curiousing, I am a planner by nature.  I like everything neat and orderly and planned out ahead of time.  The fact that God writes with very crooked lines tests my patience to no end (which may very well be the purpose.)  Sigh.