At A Fork In The Road

[Lilllabettt]

I recently tricked Harvard University into admitting me to study [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_neuroscience]educational neuroscience[/url] in Fall 2013.

In a few weeks I have to let them and my job know if I am going to take this opportunity. I am stressed to the max making this decision. I'm interested in the subject but that is beside the point ... people with my background do not go to school "for fun."

If I say no I will live with some deep disappointment in myself and the nagging sense of "what if?" ...What doors would have opened if only I had gotten this amazing education that no one can ever take from me?

On the other hand, if I accept ... I will be dealing with the consequences/stress of major debt. Masters students at Harvard mostly pay their own way. I have saved enough money to feed and house myself. That leaves tuition, which is approaching $40,000. (Its a one year program.) They will throw in a small grant, but the rest will be covered by loans. Combined with my undergrad I could end up 55 or 60000 in the red. The degree is not a big moneymaker, and I don't even know what I will "do" with it when it's done. Although it does improve employ-ability for obvious reasons. I am doubting that being interested in the subject + Harvard brand is enough to justify the investment. I have discerned religious life in the past and have never been able to completely let it go. But this level of debt will probably slam shut the door on that, probably permanently. The thought of which fills me up with sadness.

People say "live so you have no regrets," but easier said than done. If you were in my position, what would you do? Is a Harvard education "worth" it?

I didn't consider any of this before applying, since it was unlikely I'd get in.

[tinytherese]

Do you know of any other schools where you could study educational neuroscience that has a lower tuition and or offers better financial aid?

 

I've been told that if you work in a public school setting that the more classes you take after your bachelor's, the more you'll get paid for having that education.

[Lilllabettt]

There are less expensive, more generous programs ... but they are all 2 years. With tuition cost + opportunity cost  of that extra year it ends up being about the same.

 

I could get a general "masters in education" for a lot less ... but the fact is I am leaning towards leaving the classroom. Most people who study this do not end up teaching K-12.  They end up in research, or in media, or in policy.

 

What you heard about more classes post bachelors = more salary in public schools ...  is technically true, although it's for that very reason that an advanced degree can limit your job options in the classroom. Principals are, among many other things, bean counters, and often they have to consider going with a less educated, less expensive teacher.

[Lil Red]

oh man! i have no idea what you should do, or really any opinions one way or the other. but i pray that the Holy Spirit would give you right judgment and discernment in this matter. :)

[PhuturePriest]

Personally, I wouldn't do it. But I'm a very "Will this pay off fiscally?" type of person. Just pray and ask God what he wants you to do. Ultimately, that is more important than having regrets or having debt.

[she_who_is_not]

Lilllabettt,

 

My advice to you, as someone who has an expensive professional degree, tons of debt, and works in the public policy field, is to seriously consider the PhD route.  A PhD in Ed policy or research from Columbia or Vanderbilt is just as impressive as an MA from Harvard.  You are bright, hard-working, and tenacious. You have so much to contribute to the field, so just do it.  Go for a degree where you can get a full fellowship with a stipend.

 

ETA: left out a word

Edited March 15, 2013 by she_who_is_not

[Slappo]

Just know that $65k in loans on a 10 year pay off at 4% is about $675 a month for minimum payments. Depending on where the education can get you, that can easily be worth it. If you're looking at religious life though, run away from that type of debt as fast as possible! If it doesn't prevent you from joining permanently, it will prevent you from joining any time in the near future.

 

If you live in a very low cost of income living area, student loans have a much bigger impact. If you are living in a very high cost of living area where jobs pay that much more, student loans are easier to pay off and not as daunting. Median take home pay in some cities would put $675 a month at only 10-15% of a monthly budget. Go to some lower pay lower cost of living cities and it may be more like 30% on the low end which is a huge portion of a budget.

 

So.. I guess no education advice, but some financial things to consider.

[Lilllabettt]

I have thought about the phd route ... but I have been told that for the top programs I need more experience ... I know someone at Columbia who is doing a phd with less  experience though .. but what I need to show is that I can publish. It doesn't seem fair that phds get all the funding. But that is how the current academic model is set up.

 

An alum told me that there is "income based repayment" available, which pegs monthly payment to a manageable percentage of income. And that if you work in a 501c role, then after 120 payments whatever balance is left is automatically cancelled. This person said these two things together makes 60 grand in debt more like 20 or 30.

 

I said: Yes, but 120 payments is 10 years! That's a long time. ( I am nearly 28 and not getting younger)

 

They said: well, international schools recruit out of Harvard and they pay 40 grand a year tax free, car, housing, board all provided. So  you could work a couple years and have it wiped out.

 

I said: work a couple years in an international school ... like in Saudi Arabia?

 

They said: wellllllllllllllll

[Era Might]

Doesn't sound like you have a strong interest in "educational neuroscience" (not sure what that is). Seems like a big commitment to make...I'd only do it if you are passionately in love with "educational neuroscience."

[Gabriela]

I have thought about the phd route ... but I have been told that for the top programs I need more experience ... I know someone at Columbia who is doing a phd with less  experience though .. but what I need to show is that I can publish. It doesn't seem fair that phds get all the funding. But that is how the current academic model is set up.

 

An alum told me that there is "income based repayment" available, which pegs monthly payment to a manageable percentage of income. And that if you work in a 501c role, then after 120 payments whatever balance is left is automatically cancelled. This person said these two things together makes 60 grand in debt more like 20 or 30.

 

I said: Yes, but 120 payments is 10 years! That's a long time. ( I am nearly 28 and not getting younger)

 

They said: well, international schools recruit out of Harvard and they pay 40 grand a year tax free, car, housing, board all provided. So  you could work a couple years and have it wiped out.

 

I said: work a couple years in an international school ... like in Saudi Arabia?

 

They said: wellllllllllllllll

 

It's not the case that only PhDs get funding. I'm in a funded MA program. The difference is whether the MA is the terminal degree in the department.  If it's not, then the funding (usually) goes to those who will be there the longest. If it is, then they give it to the MAs because some bottom-of-the-barrel academic has to teach all those undergrads...

 

Problem is, I seriously doubt there's a terminal MA in neuroscience anywhere. That stuff requires a lot of expensive lab equipment. If you're gonna' have that, you're gonna' have serious research going on, and you're gonna' want PhDs.

 

So...

 

I am kind of in the same position myself: I played that little game of roulette with PhD admissions and religious life. "If I don't get in, then I'll start looking more deeply at monasteries. If I do get in..." It's a way of giving God some options, of letting Him open and close doors for you. Here's my interesting outcome: The order I am considering makes converts wait 5 years to enter. I converted a year ago. +4 years for a PhD.

 

Freaky.

 

In your case, I don't know. I certainly am not willing to incur a single penny of debt, given my considerations of religious life. But that's me. And I'm 33. If you could still pay it off before the age limits of the orders you're considering, and you still need time to consider...

 

Just recognize that, in an MA program, you're not going to have a whole lot of time for developing yourself spiritually. So, if you do go, you should go in thinking of it as a break from considerations of anything else. Cuz you will really not have time or energy to be running around looking at religious houses...

 

 

BTW: How in the world did you "trick" Harvard into accepting you? I'm betting you could make a few hundred thousand just selling that idea! ;-)

Edited March 15, 2013 by curiousing

[eagle_eye222001]

People say "live so you have no regrets," but easier said than done. If you were in my position, what would you do? Is a Harvard education "worth" it?

I didn't consider any of this before applying, since it was unlikely I'd get in.

 

If go to Harvard then,

 

Major debt with little to no chance of making big money afterwards?  IMO, this is a clear no.  Even if you it improves your "employability" that doesn't do you much good if you have to pay back so much.  Also it basically completely shuts the door to religious future option which you hold some reasonable value still.  This is a big risk for a small reward.

 

 

Throw yourself a party for getting accepted. :crusader2:  Seriously..... congratulations!  :cheers:  Precious few will ever be able to say they were accepted.

 

 

 

If I were in your position, I'd have a pizza party and figure out something else to do.  If you must study neurowhasa, figure out a more practical way that won't risk so much for so little.

 

 

This has just been my opinion though.  And by the way, congratulations! :crusader2:

[Lilllabettt]

thank you phriends .... ugh do i have the courage to sway "no" to harvard? mehhhhhhhhhhh

[Basilisa Marie]

If I say no I will live with some deep disappointment in myself and the nagging sense of "what if?"

 

Dumb question, but have you imagined what it would be like to say no? Like, pictured it for yourself, and thought out what life would be like? Same with the other option.  Do you have a few particular orders you're discerning with, or is it just the general idea of religious life?  If you did get the degree, would you plan on doing a fair amount of publishing with it (or at least trying)? Does Harvard have any statistics on job placement coming out of that particular program? Do they have resources to help you find something?  

[PhuturePriest]

thank you phriends .... ugh do i have the courage to sway "no" to harvard? mehhhhhhhhhhh

 

If it's coming down to courage to saying "no" to Harvard, tell those flupper muppers no! Your worth isn't decided by where you went to college. I have just as much respect for someone that went to Dodge City Community college as someone that went to Harvard, and in fact, sometimes I have more for the former, because more often than not they had nothing and strived for an education, whereas sometimes those at Harvard had life and all its nicest things handed to them with a little bow on top.

[Archaeology cat]

M only contribution is that while Hardvard us a known name, that alone doesn't necessarily mean anything. Fr example, I was accepted into Cambridge, but I declined in favour of Liverpool because their programme was actually better for what I wanted. So if this is a degree you really want, just make sure they have the programme you want.