Homosexuality Within The Priesthood

[MissyP89]

Papist...is it that a gay man would somehow be less able to love the Church as his Bride because he's attracted to men?

 

I would contend that everyone is capable of entire self-donation through love. Is it something to do with the Church being mystically viewed as female?

[Papist]

Me having tendencies towards homosexual acts, would be an impediment to me fulfilling my spousal relationship with my wife. Which would cause harm to me fulfilling my paternal relationships. 

 

Also, this is not about the individual person. I am trying speak to the priesthood as a whole. Not a case by case evaluation on each man with homosexual tendencies. 

Edited March 6, 2013 by Papist

[franciscanheart]

Me having tendencies towards homosexual acts, would be an impediment to me fulfilling my spousal relationship with my wife. Which would cause harm to me fulfilling my paternal relationships. 
 
Also, this is not about the individual person. I am trying speak to the priesthood as a whole. Not a case by case evaluation on each man with homosexual tendencies.

I see the problem with a homosexual man trying to be sexually intimate with a woman. I do not see, however, the same issues with homosexual men being non-paternal, in the sense of proper relation to children.

[beatitude]

I just made a new thread with your initial post. ;)


For the record, the end of my discernment came with my understanding that because I am qwerty, I can never enter a faithful religious order. I am almost certain the same is true for men who feel called to priesthood. I had to accept that, though I feel called, the Church on earth cannot permit me to live my life in community with other women religious.


*qwerty = queer

 

Franciscanheart, I wanted to pick up on this with a point that I never see being raised. Sexuality isn't set in stone. There is some research to suggest that people (especially women) may experience different attractions over the course of their lifespan. For a long time I thought I was asexual, as I never experienced any physical desire for anyone of any sex until I reached the age of twenty-five. Then I found myself attracted to a guy, which has been completely unexpected (and interesting - I have been observing this weird phenomenon in the same way an anthropologist might. :P ). In the same way, a woman who has only ever been attracted to men could theoretically find herself in her mid-thirties feeling attracted to another woman. If she's a nun, what does she do then? How does she deal with it? I don't think it's possible to say, if you're LGBT, stay out of the religious life, because there are no two sharply delineated boxes labelled 'LGBT' and 'straight'. Thinking of sexuality in this restrictive way actually harms our understanding of chastity and what it means to live it, in my view.

[PhuturePriest]

Can a man with homosexual tendencies function as a good priest? Yes.  However, looking at the priesthood as a whole, I see the priest has a spousal relationship with the Church and in spiritual paternity. Also he needs to be free of everything that would harm the fruitful exercise of his ministry. The spousal relationship and spiritual paternity are strange to homosexuality and cannot in person nor represent conjugal life and priestly life. This is a counter indication for priesthood for which only men and stable men, mature in their masculinity, have to be call to act in persona Christi.  This might be my paradigm of thinking or just my plain ignorance, but I can't get over what I see as inharmoniousness.

 

So are you saying a man with same-sex attraction shouldn't get married, either? Because there are a lot of great men who love their wives more than anything else in the world who have same-sex attraction.

[Evangetholic]

The Church does not claim infallibility, consistency, logic, or even reasonableness for disciplinary decisions. ;)

 

 

[Nihil Obstat]

So are you saying a man with same-sex attraction shouldn't get married, either? Because there are a lot of great men who love their wives more than anything else in the world who have same-sex attraction.

 

It would probably depend on the extent of their same-sex attraction.

In terms of the current directive about not admitting to the priesthood those with same-sex tendencies, the term used, if I am remembering correctly, was "deep seated". Certainly the terminology was chosen carefully.

[Evangetholic]

So are you saying a man with same-sex attraction shouldn't get married, either? Because there are a lot of great men who love their wives more than anything else in the world who have same-sex attraction.

 

I "have ssa"(which is a cumbersome exo-label that makes Christians sound silly). I also have a strong and vibrant sexual interest in females.

[MissyP89]

Me having tendencies towards homosexual acts, would be an impediment to me fulfilling my spousal relationship with my wife. Which would cause harm to me fulfilling my paternal relationships. 

 

I respect your opinion but must vehemently disagree. :bounce:

[Papist]

Not trying to get anyone to agree with me. Just trying to explain my thoughts...poorly no doubt.

[franciscanheart]

Franciscanheart, I wanted to pick up on this with a point that I never see being raised. Sexuality isn't set in stone. There is some research to suggest that people (especially women) may experience different attractions over the course of their lifespan. For a long time I thought I was asexual, as I never experienced any physical desire for anyone of any sex until I reached the age of twenty-five. Then I found myself attracted to a guy, which has been completely unexpected (and interesting - I have been observing this weird phenomenon in the same way an anthropologist might. :P ). In the same way, a woman who has only ever been attracted to men could theoretically find herself in her mid-thirties feeling attracted to another woman. If she's a nun, what does she do then? How does she deal with it? I don't think it's possible to say, if you're LGBT, stay out of the religious life, because there are no two sharply delineated boxes labelled 'LGBT' and 'straight'. Thinking of sexuality in this restrictive way actually harms our understanding of chastity and what it means to live it, in my view.

I don't disagree with you. My understanding, however, is that the fluidity is not really taken into consideration when it comes to religious life. I'm not sure if the wording Nihil pointed out is the same wording used for all religious men and women, but if so, that would change things quite a bit.

There are other reasons I was unable to continue my discernment, but that was the second of two big blows.

[cappie]

the Vatican’s Congregation for Catholic Education — which has authority in matters of seminary training — issued a document designed to clarify the Church’s position on the issue of homosexual men studying for the priesthood. The Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders was approved by Pope Benedict for publication in 2005. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html  By its very nature, it is not an infallible pronouncement; (emphasis mine) but Catholic bishops and administrators of their seminaries throughout the world are to form their own judgments of prospective candidates in light of its interpretation of Church teaching.

 

The document reiterates the position of the Catholic Church that homosexuals are to be profoundly respected, as children of God. Nevertheless, it states unequivocally that the Church “cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practice homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called ‘gay culture.’” The document goes on to explain that such people “find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women,” and reiterates several times the need for a candidate for the priesthood to reach “affective maturity,” which “will allow him to relate correctly to both men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood towards the Church community that will be entrusted to him.”

 

On the surface, it does sound as if the Church is denying the rights of some Catholic men to receive the sacrament of holy orders, doesn’t it? But the Congregation rebuts this point of view in the same Instruction, noting bluntly that “the desire alone to become a priest is not sufficient, and there does not exist a right to receive sacred ordination.” This is entirely in keeping with the Church’s theological understanding of the priesthood as a sacrament designed, by its very nature, for the spiritual benefit of others, and not solely for the recipient of holy orders himself. Priestly ordination should not be conferred on a man who is judged by his bishop to be ill-equipped — for whatever reason — to work among Christ’s faithful as a priest.

 

This theological notion is, in fact, completely consistent with canon 1025.2, which states bluntly that a candidate for ordination must be considered by his bishop to be beneficial to the ministry of the Church. In other words, a man may argue that he is being called by God to the priesthood, but if his bishop feels that he is for some reason unfit, the man cannot insist that he be ordained.

 

Finally in my opinion, just my opinion, those men who are at peace with themselves and God and have embraced Chasity and have united with Christ's cross and are good men but happen to have a tendency towards one temptation more so than other sexual temptation should be given just as much consideration as a person who has a tendency towards heterosexual temptation. Temptation isn't sinful; it's how you deal with that temptation.

[BigJon16]

Thanks for that post, Cappie. I was about to quote a vocations guide that cited that exact document, as well as what the USCCB has to say. They are basically the same. 

 

 

 

IMHO,

I think it is important to note that "same-sex attraction" does not make one man ultimately different from another. Sure, there are personality traits and interests that may vary, but over all we do not gain our dignity from our sexual attractions. That's the problem with the contemporary "Gay movement", that says a persons identity is based off of whatever their sexual attraction is. 

 

 

With that said, I think it pertinent that a priest should not "come out". If a priest, within his formation has reached â€œaffective maturity” then it makes no difference what his attractions are (to the average lay person). At ordination and in all of his days as a priest, he constantly lays down those attractions for the sake of the church. They do not matter, because they are not his focus.

 

The church itself--spiritual directors, seminary formators and the priest's ecclesiastical authority (Bishop or Superior ) should have knowledge of these attractions, so as to offer proper formation and guidance. 

 

 

I know that I have been completely honest so far, in my seminary application. I trust Mother Church, and I know that she loves me. If she should say no--for whatever reason--then so be it. God uses the church to lead and guide, even if that means using her to say "no." 

[Evangetholic]

I think a priest "coming out" to a gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered parishioner could be very useful. I also think gay priests in general (assuming fidelity to the Magisterium) could be very good indeed for the care of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered souls.

 

(I have avoided "ssa" because I've only seen gay people say it without an eye-roll rarely.)

Edited March 7, 2013 by Evangetholic

[Evangetholic]

I think a priest "coming out" to a gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered parishioner could be very useful. I also think gay priests in general (assuming fidelity to the Magisterium) could be very good indeed for the care of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered souls.

 

(I have avoided "ssa" because I've never seen gay people say it without an eye-roll rarely.)