MarysLittleFlower Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hello, It was brought up in another thread how Contemplative nuns make vows differently than Sisters from Active orders. I hope I understood correctly. I was wondering what the difference is? Also, I asked this in another thread but just in case - does anyone know if nuns in communities with the Latin Mass, take vows using another Rite (like a pre-VII Rite) and is there any website that has the words? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 [quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1344202244' post='2463082'] Hello, It was brought up in another thread how Contemplative nuns make vows differently than Sisters from Active orders. I hope I understood correctly. I was wondering what the difference is? Also, I asked this in another thread but just in case - does anyone know if nuns in communities with the Latin Mass, take vows using another Rite (like a pre-VII Rite) and is there any website that has the words? thanks! [/quote] Sr. Julie explained it very well here: [url="http://anunslife.org/resources/sister-or-nun/"]What is the difference between a 'nun' and a 'Sister'?[/url] [quote] As you might have noticed, there is a difference in the type of vows, solemn vs. simple. The [i]New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law [/i]explains the distinction this way:[indent] “The older religious orders (monastic, canon regulars, mendicants, Jesuits) have perpetual solemn vows, and the more recent apostolic congregations have perpetual simple vows. The chief juridical difference between the two is that religious who profess a solemn vow of poverty renounce ownership of all their temporal goods, whereas religious who profess a simple vow of poverty have a right to retain ownership of their patrimony (an estate, endowment or anything inherited from one’s parents or ancestors) but must give up its use and any revenue.â€[/indent] [/quote][indent] [/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) There is more on this subject here: [url="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=444723&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu="]Solemn Vows vs Simple Vows[/url] The best way to describe it is that a Sister can take simple vows and be dispensed from them by the local ordinary (in cases where the congregation is of diocesan rite) or a papal indult. If she was to get married, the act would be illicit but valid. However, if one took solemn vows, which are meant to be forever, it would render marriage not only illicit but invalid. Also, simple vows allow property ownership but solemn vows do not. Most of the time (if not all), cloistered communities such as Dominican nuns take solemn vows whereas their active counterparts such as the DSMMEs take simple vows. Edited August 5, 2012 by MaterMisericordiae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks, that's very informative! what about active-contemplative orders like the Sisters of Life? (if they are indeed active-contemplative..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 [quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1344206183' post='2463121'] Thanks, that's very informative! what about active-contemplative orders like the Sisters of Life? (if they are indeed active-contemplative..) [/quote] Active/contemplative orders like the Sisters of Life take simple vows, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantellata Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Quick addendum. "Taking vows" is not exactly correct.... you "make vows". It's an action on the part of the candidate who makes them. (I'll have to differ to Sr. Mary Catharine on the distinction of "making profession") After the vows are made to God then the bishop consecrates the Sister. And since we have been also talking about Consecrated Virgins lately - I imagine this would be another distinction for them -- that they [i]receive[/i]​ consecration - the action being wholly on the part of the Church with the candidate being the recipient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Technically after Vatican II solemn vows no longer exist. However "Orders" with that practice do have permission to continue their use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrideofChrist Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 All finally professed sisters who take vows must have their vows dispensed before marriage or the marriage is invalid. There are no longer distinctions between solemn and simple vows when it comes to marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' timestamp='1344214985' post='2463215'] Technically after Vatican II solemn vows no longer exist. However "Orders" with that practice do have permission to continue their use. [/quote] I remember Sr. Mary Catharine once saying they do still exist. Perhaps things are different now regarding marriage, as posted above, but I think there is still the distinction regarding the owning of property. I [i]think[/i] also Solemn Vows can only be dispensed by the Holy Father, while Simple Vows can be dispensed by a bishop. Maybe Sr. MC will see this and chime in here. She usually points out this is the difference between Dominican Sisters and Dominican Nuns (not saying one is better than the other of course!) But for instance .. there are some cloistered Dominican Sisters that do not have Solemn Vows, like the one who entered Summit from another cloistered Dominican community, who had professed Perpetual Simple Vows already .. she went through some formation and made her Solemn Profession in the Order of Preachers, thus becoming a Dominican Nun. So anyway, I think they do still exist in the Church. They are still mentioned in the current Code of Canon Law, though with nothing near the details as the 1917 Code. Maybe more information about them is in another document .. ? 1983 Code (current): [url="http://www.jgray.org/codes/cic83eng.html"]http://www.jgray.org...s/cic83eng.html[/url] Can. 1192 §1. A vow is public if a legitimate superior accepts it in the name of the Church; otherwise, it is private. §2. [b]A vow is solemn if the Church has recognized it as such; otherwise, it is simple.[/b] §3. A vow is personal if the person making the vow promises an action; real if the person making the vow promises some thing; mixed if it shares the nature of a personal and a real vow. 1917 Code (can't find English online): [url="http://www.jgray.org/codes/1917CIC.txt"]http://www.jgray.org/codes/1917CIC.txt[/url] (search "votorum sollemnium") p.s. Indwelling, I'm 100% sure you already know this and what is bolded above .. but just pointing it out for others. And that may very well be right what you said about Orders with that practice being able to continue their use. I guess what I am saying is, if this is so then they do still exist, especially with them still being named as different things in the current code. Now to learn more about their distinctions .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmaberry Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' timestamp='1344214985' post='2463215'] Technically after Vatican II solemn vows no longer exist. However "Orders" with that practice do have permission to continue their use. [/quote] How can they no longer exist yet still be permitted for certain Orders to use? You might have meant that, currently, they are only to be used with the Holy See's permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantellata Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Maybe if we post Sr. Mary Catharine's name here enough she will show up and help clarify things? Edited August 10, 2012 by mantellata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Help, Sr. Mary Catharine! We need you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Yes, Solemn vows for religious institutes still exists but this is spelled out in the constitutions not in canon law. Only the Holy See can dispense from the obligations of solemn profession. For some insitutes it is either the Bishop or even the major superior and council that may dispense from simple vows. Some communities with simple vows make a total renunciation of property which is a new thing in the 83 Code. However, it is only with solemn vows that one not only renunces property but the RIGHT to ownership. In either simple or solemn vows an attempted marriage is invalid. Indwelling Trinity is a little confused as solemn vows still do exist and it had nothing to do with Vat II but the Code of Canon Law which changed in 1983. It used to be spelled out in the code and now except for mentioning that there is a distinction between simple and solmen vows (and this isn't even in the section on religious life) there is no mention and is left up to the constitutions. It makes for some confusion even with canon lawyers! I guess it keeps them in business! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresaThoma Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Thanks Sr. Mary Catherine. I guess we do have to keep those Canon lawyers busy somehow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantellata Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I knew that Sr. Mary Catharine would come to the rescue and straighten us all out! Many thanks!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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