megamattman1 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 If the forgiveness of God is actually the cleansing of sin from us, not just a judicial declaration, how does God actually take away our sins? Catholics say confession. So now to Protestants. How does God take away our sins? Does He take them away as we commit them? Or does He wait until we die to take them all away? Or when we ask for forgiveness? Now that I think about it, Jesus did say to pray "forgive us our trespasses". That's an in the now statement. This would also rebuke the future forgiveness of sins theory would it not? (forgivness meaning taking away completely of past sins) Some genuine ideas would be helpful. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 When we believe God's message and call upon the Lord for salvation, many things happen to us: 1) Christ became our substitution for punishment (1 John 2:1, Isa 53:5, 2 Cor 5:21, Gal 3:13), redeemed us from sin to righteousness (Gal 3:13, Eph 1:7, Rom 3:24,5:9), reconciled us to God from hostility to harmony (Mt 5:24, 2 Cor 5:18-19), and satisfying the eternal wrath of God forever (Rom 3:25-26; 5:9; 1 Jhn 2:2), and placing us 'in Christ' so we might be justified (in Christ's death burial resurrection Rom6:5;8:1;1Cor1:2,1:30;2Cor5:17;Gal3:28;Eph1:3;2:6;1Th.4:16;1Pet5:14, it is a mystery (Col. 1:26-27), it is because of God's declaration (1 Cor 1:30, Eph. 2:6), it is via the baptism of the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:13, and we are now crucified (Gal 2:20, Rom 6:11), dead (Rom 7:14), Resurrected (Rom 6:11-23), and seated currently with Christ (Eph 2:6)). This made us righteous forever (Rom5:21;8:1,32-34;Heb10:14;Ps103:12;Isa44:22) and allows us to be pronounced just (Rom 3:26) and now at peace with God (Rom 5:1) 2) The Holy Spirit at that moment first indwells us (John 7:37; Acts 11:16-17; Rom 5:5; 1 Cor. 2:12; 2 Cor. 5:5) permanently (as Christians living in the flesh are still a temple of the Holy Spirit [1 Cor 6:19-20], and we are sealed by it (Eph 4:30)). It also regenerates us (making us born again) infusing new life (John 3:3, 5-8, 2 Cor 5:17) bringing a sinner from death (Eph 2:1) and corruption (3:7-18) and hostility (Rom 3:23) to a new life free from them. The regeneration allows us to please God (2 Cor 5:17, 1 John 2:29, 3:9) and bear fruit (Gal 5:22-26). It also baptizes us into the body (1 Cor 12:13) and to Christ Himself (Rom 6:1-10). It also seals us until the day of redemption (Eph 4:30, Rom 8:23 i.e. eternal security). The agent of sealing is also God as wel (2 Cor 1:22). It also sanctifies us positionally (seen in OT 'set apart' for law Ex 33:16; Lev 19:2,21; Ezek 37:28) by being apart from the domination of sin (Eph 1:3-4, Col 2:11, 1 Thess 4:3, 5:23). All these things being, by them we are justified and declared righteous by being 'in Christ' (2 Cor 5:21; 1 Cor 1:30). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamattman1 Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 declared righteous by being 'in Christ' (2 Cor 5:21; 1 Cor 1:30). When I say taken away, I mean beyond the judicial declaration to actually as never have existed. We are declared rightoues; I can go with that. But what about the sin that you commit right now? I realize it doesn't matter that you do it (in that God will not send you to hell) (though by sinning you're really in hell), but what happens to the sin? Does he take it away as you commit it? Or does this not matter as somehow or another it's taken away? (beyond judicial declaration) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I suppose it is immediately forgiven in the sacrifice God made. While we are declared righteous - nothing is held against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamattman1 Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 I suppose it is immediately forgiven in the sacrifice God made remember, i defined forgiveness as the actual cleansing. maybe i'm wrong defining it that way but it does seem like a perfect form of forgiveness. is this what you mean when you say forgiveness too? are you saying that "forgive us our trespasses" should not be looked upon as a plea but rather a thanksgiving and/or acknowledgment for the fact that you've been forgiven? (made clean) are you saying that you have no sin on you? i know martin luther said he was like a dung hill with snow covered on it to symbolize how God declared him just though he was really a sinner inside. but are you saying that you are pure snow as whenever you sin God makes does not allow the dung and you're really pure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamattman1 Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 but then we also say "as we forgive those who trespass against us". I suppose we don't actually cleanse them eh? hmm.. but the question still remains, do you think you're constantly cleansed pure inside and out? or do you have sin remaining in you though God declares you just? And if this is the case, when does it leave you? Is it when you die? Or maybe when you ask for forgiveness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamattman1 Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 i believe that you are forgiven (washed clean inside out) when you repent and are sorry. anyone, not just circle master, can answer those questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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